Soldato
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The problem for Liverpool is that I don't think Benitez has a clue what his strongest team is.
Rafa's Rotating - Myth or Not?
- Thread starter BaZ87
- Start date
lol didn't you notice the part of the article where it mentioned that he kept just as many regulars in his side as Utd (and more than Chelsea), going by that we could say Fergie doesn't know his either.
Is there a single best 11 for every match though? For example today our best 11 would have had Alonso alongside Gerrard rather than Mascherano but had we played Chelsea, Utd etc then it would have been Masherano alonside Gerrard.
If you're talking about the best 11 for a match against a top side then im sure this would be the side that Rafa would choose.
Reina
Finnan Carra Agger Arbeloa
Pennant Gerrard Mascherano Babel
Torres Kuyt
But like i said, Mascherano isn't needed against the smaller sides and Alonso's better passing would be more useful.
I don't think he thinks theres such thing as a "strongest team" for every game. He'll pick a different "strongest team" depending on the opposition/occasion/form etc.
edit: baz said pretty much the same thing.
exactly but the only position i would put up for debate regarding who's best suited would be Alonso or Mascherano (maybe Arbeloa or Riise too), the rest of the side would get in our best 11 regardless of the game.
E.g. A home game vs a big side he may go for Alonso and Gerrard but away from home he may play Mascherano instead, other than that it would stay pretty much the same.
Soldato
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I refuse to accept that article though, statistically speaking there might be nothing between the sides but there is so much more to it than that. Never did Fergie change a team because of the opposition, only because of injuries or other mitigating circumstances. Last season our best XI without question was;
VdS
Neville Vidic Rio Evra
Ronaldo Carrick Scholes Giggs
Saha Rooney
That would be the team that would be picked every game in an ideal world, doesn't matter if you're playing AC Milan or Farsley Celtic. I don't believe that there is such a thing as a best XI for different matches, the best teams are built on two things, ability and consistency. You should always play to your own strengths, not try and fit your game round the opposition. That's why I'm concerned about the arrival of Hargreaves, yes it's nice to have a player of his ability but it brings questions about what our best CM partnership actually is.
VdS
Neville Vidic Rio Evra
Ronaldo Carrick Scholes Giggs
Saha Rooney
That would be the team that would be picked every game in an ideal world, doesn't matter if you're playing AC Milan or Farsley Celtic. I don't believe that there is such a thing as a best XI for different matches, the best teams are built on two things, ability and consistency. You should always play to your own strengths, not try and fit your game round the opposition. That's why I'm concerned about the arrival of Hargreaves, yes it's nice to have a player of his ability but it brings questions about what our best CM partnership actually is.
If that was the case then Mascherano, Sissoko etc.. wouldn't have had so many games. I don't think there is any doubt that Liverpool do infact rotate a lot, the issue they have is they do it when it's unneccesary.
You can refuse to accept the article if you want but the fact remains that Utd made just as many changes to there side as we did and im sure that over the course of the season we had just as many injuries/suspensions as you did (in fact i wouldn't be suprised if we had quite a few more).
I also find it hard to believe that Fergie kept the same side providing they were fit and not suspended (see below) and were never rotated/rested.
Also to say that Utd had 1 best side and providing they were fit etc they played i find very strange when Heinze was selected in the FA cup final ahead of Evra but on many other occasions Evra played ahead of Heinze (while both were fit). Other than Evra-Heinze Utd didn't have any other genuine competition for places in there squad, who could have replaced Giggs and Scholes? O'Shea and Park? And didn't Utd reguarly change there entire system in Europe? 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3 with Rooney out wide?
I would be interested to know what Utd's best side is this year now that they have real competition in CM, on the wings and up front and i would be shocked if the best side to play Derby at home is the same as Barca away, i mean why would you play Hargreaves vs Derby ahead of Scholes/Carrick or another winger/forward for example.
And finally im shocked that you're concerned about Hargreaves' arrival, he's the sort of player that may have made a difference in the CL for you as you had no answers to Kaka but saying that Utd only have 1 best side so he may well have never got in the side
Of course we rotate but no more than Utd or Chelsea. Mascherano and Sissoko got games when Pennant was left out (Gerrard moved out wide) or when we played 3 in the middle (Utd done similar things when they changed system and Rooney got moved out wide) but our core players always played so im not sure why changing Crouch for Bellamy or Mascherano for Pennant is unneccesary depending on the game.
Also Mascherano only started 8 games and Sissoko 14 and other than those 2, Hyypia play 20-odd games due to injuries to Agger and Carra (also got a few apps towards the end of the season when we rested players).
Rotation is just used as a stick to beat us with when we don't win, people still go on about our zonal marking but if people actually look at the stats we have an amazing record at defending set-plays.
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While in general I agree that team selection shouldn't be based solely around the opposition, I think at the highest level when you have squads packed full of internationals that there is room for tweaking depending on the situation. For example Arsenal had a lot of success in Europe lately playing a 4-5-1 formation.
Arguably one of the reasons why Mourinho is a successful manager is because he puts a lot of time into selecting the right tactics and players to combat the opposition. For example he will often change his fullbacks, I read an extremely interesting article on here when he first came to England written by a Portuguese writer explaining about how he picks his squad/team.
I'm sorry but there is no excuse for "resting" players at this stage of the league when they look like they are on form and doing the business. What's the point of being fit for the 2nd half of the league when you are 20 points behind? Torres is your most dangerous player by far yet he gets dropped for a very tricky away game at Pompey then brought in for a carling cup game, dropped for another league game then back in for champs league. He looks like he has adjusted to the prem instantly and doesn't need the bedding in period many do to find some form, he doesn't need to rest and he doesn't need to to adjust so why drop him? The most confusing thing for me is the carling cup selection, it kind of goes against his whole theory unless Rafa rates it higher than the league.
Isnt it the fact that he almost NEVER plays the same side two games in a row, where as United and chelsea did?
They made the same amount of changes, but they were large changes, in fewer games.
Isnt the problem that Benitez just seems to make changes for changes sake?
They made the same amount of changes, but they were large changes, in fewer games.
Isnt the problem that Benitez just seems to make changes for changes sake?
Yep that is true but according to that artcile, on the 4 occasions Utd done this there form droppped.
Not sure why you think that, Utd only kept the same side 4 times and had the same amount of regulars as we did.
Yea thats it
We lost our entire defense, our entire midfield bar Ronaldo and our strikeforce last season. I've never known us get so many players injured. At some point last season ALL 11 first-team players missed a game injured.
That's my point. Rafa rotated probably the finest English CM in a couple of decades onto the right-wing to fit with rotation policies. It's the players through the middle that are the most important and Gerrard is a phenomenal player.
I don't know whether to believe that, are you counting a change on the bench or something?
Already this season we've started the same team numerous times.
Liverpool lost every player except Kuyt to injury last year and he missed a couple of matches at the start of the seasons because he wasn't signed (though Gerrard didn't miss a league game, just a CL game).
Firstly Gerrard didn't play on the right just for the sake of playing Mascherano or Sissoko, but because he felt that in those games we needed more solidity in the middle (and he still played most of last season in the middle).
Also didn't Fergie play Rooney on the left (one of the finest forwards in the world) and Giggs through the middle (one of the best wingers of his generation) just for the sake of rotating?
Its games in a row not the same 11 being played 1 week and then playing 6 games later.
The answer to this is simple.
When you 'rotate' players and win - you are seen as 'resting' them (for the bigger games).
When you 'rotate' players and lose - you are seen as 'tinkering'.
If Liverpool had won the Premiership once or twice under Rafa, then people would be praising his rotation policy. Ultimately his rotation policy has worked very well for them in the Champions League, and they've been one of the few teams who have had a freshness and spark about them in the latter stages of the competition.
The problem is, that come the end of the league season, having a freshness and spark isn't enough if you've already dropped 20 points behind your rivals.
When you 'rotate' players and win - you are seen as 'resting' them (for the bigger games).
When you 'rotate' players and lose - you are seen as 'tinkering'.
If Liverpool had won the Premiership once or twice under Rafa, then people would be praising his rotation policy. Ultimately his rotation policy has worked very well for them in the Champions League, and they've been one of the few teams who have had a freshness and spark about them in the latter stages of the competition.
The problem is, that come the end of the league season, having a freshness and spark isn't enough if you've already dropped 20 points behind your rivals.
Thats exactly it, we weren't out of the title race because of rotating but because the players that were being rotated weren't good enough, Rafa's carried on with his 'rotating' this season (though with better players) and if/when we win our game in hand we will go 2nd and before Utd or Chelsea blame injuries on there changes this season we've had more and our best players too (Gerrard, Carra, Agger and Alonso have had broken bones).
Yea thats it
Well, its true, there is no other explanation for leaving a £23 million pound striker on the bench for any league game when you know full well you are going to be sacked if you dont come close to winning the league this year.
And it is as simple as that, he will be gone if he doesnt close that gap and as yet he's shown no sign of doing that.
Ive seen your predictions over the last few years and they're generally wrong so im not too worried, Benitez won't be sacked this season regardless of how we do this season.
Leaving him out against Pompey was a mistake but not the Birmingham game. Benitez (or any other manager) doesn't believe a player can play every game in a season without a break (if you want them to stay at a certain level) and the Birmingham game was an ideal chance to leave him out as it was a game that any 11 of our squad should have won.
Caporegime
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I don't expect us to win the league this year but I do expect us to finish a lot closer to the league winner than we have done in previous years. If that doesn't happen I expect Benitez to go because he's had money to spend and can have no more excuses.
.....................?
Wrong?
Keegan sacked?
Pearce Sacked?
Joe Cole NOT signing for united?
Liverpool not winning the league each and every season i've said they wouldnt so far?
Cisse being an over rated froggie who would never make it in the PL when you signed him?
Gerard Houllier being sacked?
saying Leeds were going to go bust while they were still in the CL and challenging for the league?
Robson being Sacked as Newcastle manager?
Saying Newcastle had no money year in year out and that they never recovered from Keegans massive spending and this week one of the new board has come out and said they were going to "fold like a pack of cards"?
Arsenal NOT dominating for the next ten years when they were still on their undefeated run?
Chelsea NOT dominating British football when they won their second league title?
Do me a favor
The only ones in recent years that i've got wrong is City going down about 3 years ago and pool winning the champions league (i got it right the second time).
You'll be trying to spin that net spend rubbish on me next.
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