Rafa's Rotating - Myth or Not?

Pigeon_Killer said:
That's the biggest problem I have with him. Someone should tell him to get in the box and at least have an attempt on goal now and then. All he does by dropping deep is slow down our attacks and get in the way of Gerrard and our other midfielders. He's not Dennis Bergkamp so if he wants to keep dropping back he should at least have the decency to drop back all the way to the bench. At the moment I see him as a really crap midfielder or a pointless striker.
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The way (position: dropping deep etc) he's playing isn't down to him but the tactics we play and his goals to starts (or apps in general) ratio was only slightly worse than Crouch's last season (and Crouch played right up top when he played).

His work-rate and the amount of chances he creates through that work more than make up for the odd goal Crouch may score, for me anyway.
 
The way i see it, Torres is Liverpool's best forward, he should be picked for every game. Leaving a player of his star quality on the bench is pure madness surely?

Arguably there are no easy games in the EPL, fair enough leave him out for a Carling Cup clash*, but not prem games.

That's my opinion anyway. :)

*but then he wouldn't have scored that amazing hat trick :rolleyes:
 
Pigeon_Killer said:
If we're going to play someone in the hole or in a deeper position why not play someone that can unlock defences like Yossi? It doesn't make sense to me.
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Thats a good question but not one that Kuyt decides, he gets picked to play there and he gives 100% and like i said he still manages to chip in with a similar amount of goals as our other strikers have (while they were playing right up top), which is why i would pick him ahead of Crouch.

As for why not playing Benayoun there; i guess its down to the lack of goals he'll get but it would be a decent option to see at sometime.
 
BaZ87 said:
1. Firstly people don't seem understand the reason why Benitez does rotate (Andy Gray in particular); you keep hearing people going on about Benitez thinks players are tired and can't play 3 games in a week when in actual fact Benitez has came out and said that players can play 20-30 games in a row but if you want them to be fresh enough to compete at the business end of the season when trophies are up for stake then you must give them rests during the season. Now thats a matter of opinion but if you look at Liverpool's record towards the back end of the season, particuarly in the cups and there performance over the Christmas period where the fixtures are all piled up, Liverpool have had that freshness and our results have shown that.

2. Secondly i keep hearing people (press and on here) that the reason why Chelsea and Utd have had more success in the League is because Fergie and JM kept a stable side and Benitez kept making changes, well thats simply just bs. I don't want to take too much credit for this because i was a bit suprised at this when i read it but there was an article a while back that brought up a few stats that prove this talk that Rafa rotates more is bs:
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1) Your reasons cup success isn't simply down to freshness, one thing you are not pointing out is that on your CL cup runs seasons that you team was out of the title race a good 4-6 months before the season ended so all you had to worry about was a top 4 finish (something you didn't manage with your first CL win). In 2005 you knocked Chelsea out with a very fortunate goal and beat an AC Milan side, that battered you senseless and had 10 mins of madness (coupled with your lot showing great bit of spirit to be fair), on penalties. Your lot beat West Ham on penalties, knocked Chelsea out again in the CL with penalties as well. This wasn't down to freshness, it was down to in some cases luck and some cases simply on the day being the better side.

2) Stats are a funny little thing, you can twist them how you like to prove your point. They have had far superior sides to your lot and more often than not (especially in Man utd's case) their changes have been down to injuries or suspension rather than planning 6 months in advance to keep players fit. Man utd suffered a huge injury crisis towards the end of last season and much of Chelsea's changes have been down to the incredible strength of their squad. If you have a squad like Chelsea's where in the past you could take Robben off and put Joe Cole or SWP on then you can get away with rotating. You don't have the kind of squad they do so it isn't as easy to get away with rotating.

Whether you like to admit it or not Rafa Benetiz is trying to be more clever than he actually is with his rotation thing, for years now the teams that win titles have been the ones with a stable first XI, that simply isn't the case at Liverpool.
 
he chooses the squad he sees as being fit as suitable for his match tactics, he also thinks about the long term, he wants torres still firing at the end of the season when it can really count. Its not exactly ridiculous for him to expect liverpool to shaft lower teams with the other 3 strikers, to be honest its just a case of a lot of people settling into play styles now i hope.
Why play the same side two games in a row when someone may be performing better than someone else?
We dont see the players in training, although I cannot see why torres doesnt start more, he is the greatest threat, and hes at peak physical condition so does not exactly need resting very often. He should be one of our spine players, i guess a lot of it is down to crouch spitting his dummy out over a starting place etc.

I think the problem currently with liverpool is pako leaving, not rotation, theres a few other things probably going on behind closed doors too, most likely down to fierce competition for players, aswell as hyypia coming back into 1st team to stand in for agger whilst carragher still doesnt look very solid after his injury.
Maybes rafa should take them on holiday, let them get drunk, sing a few songs, and then someone can bat riise around with a golf club? it worked wonders last time for team morale :D
 
Rafa's comments after the match would indicate he's not going to stop rotating players because he doesn't think it effects the team so whether it's a myth or not rotation is here to stay. If anything, I would expect him to rotate more now that his methods are being questioned.
 
That's ridiculous, anyone can see it has an effect. Players need to build up form, being rested for every other game quite clearly interferes with that. As to him doing it more because it's being questioned, well that's just childish. Everyone apart from a few Liverpool fans can see it's causing problems already.
 
Pigeon_Killer said:
Rafa's comments after the match would indicate he's not going to stop rotating players because he doesn't think it effects the team so whether it's a myth or not rotation is here to stay. If anything, I would expect him to rotate more now that his methods are being questioned.
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Whats this?

So Rafa HIMSELF admits to rotating players?
 
I dont think it has much to do with rotating players. I think Benitez`s tactics stink.
Take last night for example. Why have 6 strikers (exaggeration) on the pitch if you have absolutely NO ONE supplying them with ammo especially down the wings.
Come on rafa I am getting tired of our negative football. Too many pass backs and not direct enough or quick enough when counter attacking.

The football just looks panicky with no rythm and to be fair we are playing just like we have been for the past few years I don`t see no big improvement yet.
 
this isn't very funny but i'm going to post it anyway as i chuckled once when i saw it.
wantthatone-8649.jpg
 
above post is quality haha.

Nothing wrong with rotating really, team should be picked on form, torres should definately be in the spine of the squad though..
his tactics seem to be a bit off at the moment, he has the team capable of bombarding a team's box, though our defense may not be steady enough for counters right now, i just wish he'd do it. christ he did it last year against barca, at the nou, with bellamy forward..
 
atpbx said:
Whats this?

So Rafa HIMSELF admits to rotating players?
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The person interviewing him basically asked if he thought the amount of players he was using was having a negative effect on the team. Rafa replied by saying "No, definitely not!". It wasn't so much an admission but he certainly made it sound like he won't be changing his ways any time soon.

rayb74 said:
The football just looks panicky with no rythm and to be fair we are playing just like we have been for the past few years I don`t see no big improvement yet.
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Have to agree. It's just the same brand of negative football with slightly better players which isn't much use when we don't even play to their strengths. The players look like they don't have a clue what they're meant to be doing. Don't like the way we're heading at the moment :(
 
As I understand it, the rotation policy is meant to keep players fresh and promote competition for places?

The trouble is players lose match fitness if they don't play regularly and you don't get competition for places because even if a player has a blinding game (as Torres did against reading) he's likely to get dropped for the next match due to squad rotation. If a players performance has no impact on his likelihood of being picked for the next game, I can’t see the incentive to play well.

In summery, a rotation policy doesn’t work IMHO. Especially when you’re playing below your potential as Liverpool are at the moment. Resting player is fine, but a rotation for rotations sake is plain stupid.
 
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Souness said something good (for once in life) and actually made the point for which we are arguing about.
He said, you basically pick your strongest eleven each and every game, you dont get tired when you are winning, you cant wait for the next game, sure you might have the odd stinker along the way but you get in the heads of you team mates, you know where the runs are going to be, you know as a full back before you go for a risky tackle that your center half is going to have your back if you mess it up.
You know as a winger someone is going to come on the overlap if you get stood up, you know as a striker that you are going to be going to near post for the header, you know as a midfielder that X and Y want the ball playing to feet or just in front of them.

You only get that from playing together week in, week out.
Its how it works, right from the top of the game to the bottom.
 
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atpbx said:
You cant,his choices are not backed by any kind of reasoning and therefore anybody who does choose correctly has done purely by chance and not by skill.
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Couldnt' agree with that any more.
A perfect example is last year, Crouch banging in a hat-trick then not playing in the next game. After all... that's how you keep team morale isn't it?
 
NokkonWud said:
Couldnt' agree with that any more.
A perfect example is last year, Crouch banging in a hat-trick then not playing in the next game. After all... that's how you keep team morale isn't it?
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What you been smoking Nokkon? After banging in his hat-trick he played the next game and the next game after that too
 
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