Rafa's Rotating - Myth or Not?
- Thread starter BaZ87
- Start date
Rafa will only be sacked at the end of the season if he doesn't finish in the top 4.
Houllier had 6 years, we traditionally give our managers time and Benitez will be given the same (the CL bought him more).
You have to remember this is the first season he's had the money to compete with yourselves and Chelsea and if we win our game in hand we go 1 point behind you (and clear of Chelsea) and still unbeaten in the league, where's the crisis people are making out we're in?
genuine question but was there really a big difference between ours and your net spend in the period from summer 04 to summer 06? fair enough our squad was superior but we've both done some rebuilding since then. anyway i don't mean to bash at him and while i wouldn't call it crunch time or anything i really wouldn't think he'd be given 7 years in todays football climate. though as you say winning the champions league is a very big start.
I couldn't tell you if there was much of a difference but i would imagine you spent a bit more. Like you say your squad in '04 was far more complete than that of the one Rafa inherited and where he may have spent £35m it was spent on 8-9 players where the likes of yourselves spent £25m(ish) on Rooney alone. Our actual net spend this summer wasn't a great deal more than previous years, the difference being that rather than having to buy 8 or 9 players (to replace the players we had to sell to raise that cash) we only signed 3-4 first team players.
I find the amount of **** he gets (particuarly from Liverpool fans, expect it from the rest) staggering, he took a squad that was barely capable of qualifying for the CL and won it in his first season and has since won the FA cup and reached another CL final yet he gets critisised for not being able to instantly compete with Utd and Chelsea when they've had, in Utds case, years of spending top money to build a squad and in Chelseas case they spent around £200m in the space of 3 seasons. People (Mancs particuarly) seem to forget that Fergie had 5-6 years of breaking record transfer fees before he won any trophy (of importance) let alone the league, im sure Rafa will be give at least another 2 seasons (after this) and it will take us not qualifying for the CL (not likely to happen) for him to be sacked before then.
You sure about that?
Ive had a few beers but at the moment i can only think of Roy Keane that we broke the transfer record for before we won the league
Like i said ive sunk a few but feel free to prove me wrong
mate, we had djemba djemba, kleberson and bellion fighting for a place in our first team squad. haha, speak not of having a cack team 
anyway i make it at us spending about 4-5 million less than you net not including this season because obviously we're on financial par now. it's irrelevant though because i do concede that our squad was in better shape than yours at the time.
my real point is that i think it's right that managers should have a good timescale to work with a club fergie as we've mentioned took ages. my only point was that nowadays fans and boards are even more demanding of immediate results, liverpool traditionally have quite a supportive board but obviously it's run by new guys now so we'll have to see how that works out. it's just that with things in football the way they are right now and with the increased investment i can only really see a limited amount of patience. now i don't think that's right and i think winning the european cup has bought a grace period and deservedly so, but in the last 10 years how many big european clubs have you seen give a new manager 5+ years to bring home the domestic title?
If i'm honest with you i think that if he hasn't won the title by the end of next season i'd start to see it as increasingly unlikely that he would. don't know why but it's just a gut feeling.
and i haven't by any means ruled you out of the title race this season by the way. your recent performances have been pretty crap but you're still in touch with the top.
anyway i make it at us spending about 4-5 million less than you net not including this season because obviously we're on financial par now. it's irrelevant though because i do concede that our squad was in better shape than yours at the time.
my real point is that i think it's right that managers should have a good timescale to work with a club fergie as we've mentioned took ages. my only point was that nowadays fans and boards are even more demanding of immediate results, liverpool traditionally have quite a supportive board but obviously it's run by new guys now so we'll have to see how that works out. it's just that with things in football the way they are right now and with the increased investment i can only really see a limited amount of patience. now i don't think that's right and i think winning the european cup has bought a grace period and deservedly so, but in the last 10 years how many big european clubs have you seen give a new manager 5+ years to bring home the domestic title?
If i'm honest with you i think that if he hasn't won the title by the end of next season i'd start to see it as increasingly unlikely that he would. don't know why but it's just a gut feeling.
and i haven't by any means ruled you out of the title race this season by the way. your recent performances have been pretty crap but you're still in touch with the top.
mate, we had djemba djemba, kleberson and bellion fighting for a place in our first team squad. haha, speak not of having a cack team
You had those fighting to get on the bench, we had Traore in our 11 so i win that one
As for the rest of what you've said, there all fair comments but our Yanks are taking a pretty much hands-off role regarding the football side of the club and Parry has both persuaded Rafa to stay on several occasions when he had offers to go to Real Madrid (and Inter) and also shown huge patience with Houllier in the past so i can't see him changing anything soon.
As long as we're qualifying for the CL and come 2 seasons down the road (hopefully this season onwards) genuinely challenging for the league then i can't see him having anything to worry about.
baz speaks more truth than an under-10.
Aslong as liverpool start to become more of a threat and start to show more signs of a real challenge for silverware on multiple fronts then rafas job is safe, he will have time to do it, hes already proved hes capable.
Aslong as liverpool start to become more of a threat and start to show more signs of a real challenge for silverware on multiple fronts then rafas job is safe, he will have time to do it, hes already proved hes capable.
to compete on all fronts you need a massive squad these days and need to make tactical changes for the anti rafa crew change 'tactical' with 'rotation' , you cant compete and win everything with just 11 players
is it not fair to say none of the other top 4 sides have competed on all fronts ? ok arsenal got beat in the champs league final but they also finished below liverpool twice in the last few yrs . Chelsea and man u havent exactly set europe alight over that period whilst spending vast amounts on their squads
Rafa has had a lot of success in his rather short career, he is still one of the best managers in football and the facts show this, too much is made of his 'tactical' changes but ultimately its the players who are letting the fans down not him
I really do hope your right
The thing is you could give Rafa 200million next year and I think he would probably win us a big Cup or two, but not the league.
The football he plays is a cup winning team not a league winning team.
Come on Rafa prove me wrong.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Nov 2002
- Posts
- 7,773
- Location
- Under the Hill
I just find that these days the chairmen cannot seem to realise that if they do not have the money it is very difficult for a manager to improve the team. Removing the manager as if he has more influence over the outcome of a game is crazy. If owners want to point a finger, start with the players before you even get to the manager.
Was Mourinho a worse manager in 07 than in 04? I highly doubt it. Are the performances of the Chelsea players responsible for his exit? Pretty much. If they were top of the table and winning ugly, I doubt he would have gone.
The only responsibility a manager should take for a squad is if he has made poor transfer decisions. Great players need a bit of guidance, but they play the game, not the manager. Spending masses for minimal return is the cardinal sin. Imo, Rafa has done pretty well and that's from a United fan. (they'll never win the league though
)
Was Mourinho a worse manager in 07 than in 04? I highly doubt it. Are the performances of the Chelsea players responsible for his exit? Pretty much. If they were top of the table and winning ugly, I doubt he would have gone.
The only responsibility a manager should take for a squad is if he has made poor transfer decisions. Great players need a bit of guidance, but they play the game, not the manager. Spending masses for minimal return is the cardinal sin. Imo, Rafa has done pretty well and that's from a United fan. (they'll never win the league though
)How many years did it take Fergie to prove he can compete on multiple fronts? And like i said above he had the cash to compete from day 1.
Getting rid would be complete madness, if anyone can get the best out the likes of Torres its Rafa.
I just want Rafa to give all the strikers a decent run in the 1st team so they can get match fit,get a bit of sharpness and actually learn to play with the rest of the 'team'.
I just want Rafa to give all the strikers a decent run in the 1st team so they can get match fit,get a bit of sharpness and actually learn to play with the rest of the 'team'.
I certainly remeber being at old trafford and the manc fans chanting "fergie out"
That didnt actually happen that long ago - because SAF was not against (but not behind either) the Glazer take over
I know you were talking many years ago - but its also happened after everything he has done for the club
As for Benitez - I say let him continue rotating as long as he wants - Liverpool have clearly lost 6 points in the league already this season due to his pokicy - with a settled team Spurs & Birmingham would have been easily beaten (even taking into account "one of those days" factors) - yes thats only 4 but you get the idea, not to mention the comedy which was Marseille!!!
Even the impregnable defence is lettting in goals - Until last week they were equal top of the league with Man Utd defensively (if I read the table right) but including the Marseille game thats 3 goals leaked in a week ......against so so opposition.