Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

[LePhuronn]

Hmm, I can only find direct comparisons to skylake, they said they can fit four gracemont cores in the same die space as one skylake core and I think rocket Lake was about 20% on skylake and alder Lake was about 40%.

So, presumably they offer more multi-threaded performance for the die space.

Last time I checked, Gracemont was pegged at around 70% of a Skylake core and doesn't have Hyperthreading. So very rough napkin maths would suggest 4 Gracemont cores is 280% of a single Skylake core with Hyperthreading disabled at the same clock. But Gracemont cores don't clock as high as Skylake cores, and Skylake cores have HT. So at full utilisation, what is a Gracemont cluster's actual performance advantage over a single Skylake core?

So if a Golden Cove core is 140% of a Skylake core, that's equivalent to a pair of Gracemont Cores, but again Golden Cove clocks much higher and has hyperthreading.

Ultimately a big numbers mess when you try to pick it apart, but if a Gracemont cluster outperforms a Golden Cove core, then why bother with Golden Cove cores at all? If the 13900K is going for a 8+16 config, then just give me an outright 48 core Gracemont CPU.

Inte's Hybrid design made no sense before we saw Alder Lake come out, and it makes just as much sense now that Raptor Lake is approaching. The implementation of this which makes up 12th Gen CPUs is impressive, and some would say "it just works" so why question, but it doesn't make it any less bonkers and still looks like a decision driven by failures in other aspects of Intel's capabilities.

 

[Tetras]

Ultimately a big numbers mess when you try to pick it apart, but if a Gracemont cluster outperforms a Golden Cove core, then why bother with Golden Cove cores at all? If the 13900K is going for a 8+16 config, then just give me an outright 48 core Gracemont CPU.

Inte's Hybrid design made no sense before we saw Alder Lake come out, and it makes just as much sense now that Raptor Lake is approaching. The implementation of this which makes up 12th Gen CPUs is impressive, and some would say "it just works" so why question, but it doesn't make it any less bonkers and still looks like a decision driven by failures in other aspects of Intel's capabilities.

Marketing maybe? Moar cores always looks good. And, 16 Gracemont cores don't explode under full multi-threaded load, so they can keep some kind of baseline competitiveness for efficiency in content creation?

 

[LePhuronn]

And, 16 Gracemont cores don't explode under full multi-threaded load, so they can keep some kind of baseline competitiveness for efficiency in content creation?

That, I think, is the true reason. 12900K could fit 10 Golden Cove cores, 13900K could fit 12, but Christ knows what power and heat that would involve.

The 12400F isn't too far behind the 5600X in MT, on par in ST but costs a good chunk less. Golden Cove alone can more-or-less keep pace with Zen 3 if you price adjust slightly, but since this package can only accommodate a maximum of 12 cores, Intel have no answer for the 5950X, and would need to price-beat the 5900X. And again, let's not even touch thermals and power.

So yeah, supplement Golden Cove with Gracemont clusters and you get vastly superior MT performance, but it's pretty evident that's a workaround to Intel's limitations as opposed to some stroke of genius computing approach.

Still, let's see what Meteor Lake does next year, and what this revolutionary approach Lunar Lake is supposed to bring. Because Raptor Lake is going to be DOA in the face of Zen 4.

 

[uscool]

Intel 13th Gen Core “Raptor Lake” desktop CPU to feature up to 68MB of L2/L3 cache​

Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" desktop CPU to feature up to 68MB of L2/L3 cache - VideoCardz.com

Intel Raptor Lake with bigger cache A newly leaked screenshot supposedly showing Intel 13th Gen Core ‘Cache configuration’ has been posted by OneRaichu. There is really no way to tell if this is the flagship Raptor Lake CPU, so it does not make sense to throw SKU names at this point. What is...

videocardz.com

Further confirmation of P core changes including increased L2 cache in each P core, as well as increased L3 cache. Oh and of course, 8 extra 'E' cores.

Can't wait to upgrade!

Hi Dave , I'm confused you say confirmation but the article is stating supposedly and alleged unless you are employed by intel and know more ?

Also intel officially stated it's upto double digit increase doesn't seem all that impressive shouldn't it be more when you say it's a new architecture

Is this the last CPU support on the current platform ?

 

[Dicehunter]

Is this the last CPU support on the current platform ?

Yep, 13th gen will be compatible with existing Z690 boards and 14th gen will require a whole new socket.

 

[Dave2150]

He bought the 11900K the instant it was available and then spent the rest of his time trying to justify that purchase.

I think people should buy what they want, but the 10900K was every way a better CPU than the 11900K for the same if not less money, when you buy the new generation that's worse than the last you are just buying it because it has Intel written on the box.

I had lots of fun using and playing with my 11900k, still using it in my VR rig. I'll be selling it on as a bundle when upgrading to a 13900k/Zen4 though. I like to maintain two rigs, one current generation and one prior generation. Mostly because I need my VR rig in a separate room and it's too much of a hassle moving rig's around the house

Assuming Zen4 is stable and performs well, I may end up with Zen4 and a 13900k, else it'll be 13900k and the 12900k I currently have.

 

[Minstadave]

Assuming Zen4 is stable and performs well, I may end up with Zen4 and a 13900k, else it'll be 13900k and the 12900k I currently have.

I like how you don't have the same caveat for Intel chips as you do for Zen 4. Even if they don't perform well you still buy them

 

[Journey]

I like how you don't have the same caveat for Intel chips as you do for Zen 4. Even if they don't perform well you still buy them

It's like a Gucci belt though, it's got Gucci written in it so must hold your trousers up better.

 

[LePhuronn]

It's like a Gucci belt though, it's got Gucci written in it so must hold your trousers up better.

That's a huge assumption. Gucci umbrellas aren't waterproof, for example.

 

[Jay85]

If this is a decent uplift and actual real world performance uplift, not these benchmark scores that don't really translate well then i may finally upgrade from my 9900k! Still abit shocked that 9900k's are still fetching around £250 on the used market!

 

[cfletch]

If this is a decent uplift and actual real world performance uplift, not these benchmark scores that don't really translate well then i may finally upgrade from my 9900k! Still abit shocked that 9900k's are still fetching around £250 on the used market!

At Christmas 6700k's were going for £130 on eBay and they're 7+ years old. I'm coming round to the idea of buying high end CPUs keeping them for 6 years then reselling, feels like you make back the extra that you pay over mid range and you get to have a more powerful CPU for half a decade.

 

[G J]

Agree with the two posts above, the high end CPU of that socket maintains its value well over the years.

Madness what people will pay but hey its great if ones selling it.

 

[g67575]

It's interesting that Intel is skipping discussion of Raptor Lake tomorrow, in favour of Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake...

 

[boabs]

should be very nice and fast when it comes.

 

[Grim5]

Thisnis cool

 

[Journey]

So once again it seems Intel are looking to have Raptor Lake being the last gen on what I consider a brand new socket, do they just like creating e-waste or something? Why will/would anyone buy a new Z790 board, instead of the cheaper Z690/B660 options now? What else can they add, or maybe they'll try to compete with AMD and have boards with full PCI-E 5.0 on all devices?

 

[humbug]

So once again it seems Intel are looking to have Raptor Lake being the last gen on what I consider a brand new socket, do they just like creating e-waste or something? Why will/would anyone buy a new Z790 board, instead of the cheaper Z690/B660 options now? What else can they add, or maybe they'll try to compete with AMD and have boards with full PCI-E 5.0 on all devices?

Intel aren't just selling you a CPU, they want to sell you a chipset too... Keep buying those new Motherboards yo.

 

[G J]

I realised with short lived sockets is that you hit a wall where the second gen upgrades are kinda pointless esp with Intel and their single % performance increases as the high end second hand value remains strong (great if youre selling) and it kinda forces you into a new platform anyway as the cost to move isnt much more.

Forgot to add, Raptor Lake best bring something more then the up to 10% gains as the rumors I've seen say the P cores may stay the same and adding more E cores is not going to cut it really.

 

[g67575]

It's still Golden Cove cores, but they will be clocked higher, just like the 12900KS, but also have more cache. Main perf. difference will come from the increase in E-cores. Power usage is going to be significantly higher than Zen 4, especially compared to the 16 core model they demonstrated running at a TDP of 170w.

Intel is heavily investing in Meteor Lake / 7nm EUV CPUs, Raptor Lake was never the plan for 2022. It became the plan when the new Intel CEO took over (maybe few months before), who has barely discussed the 13th gen at all, but said quite a bit about Meteor Lake.

 

[Dave2150]

It's still Golden Cove cores, but they will be clocked higher, just like the 12900KS, but also have more cache. Main perf. difference will come from the increase in E-cores. Power usage is going to be significantly higher than Zen 4, especially compared to the 16 core model they demonstrated running at a TDP of 170w.

Intel is heavily investing in Meteor Lake / 7nm EUV CPUs, Raptor Lake was never the plan for 2022. It became the plan when the new Intel CEO took over (maybe few months before), who has barely discussed the 13th gen at all, but said quite a bit about Meteor Lake.

I suggest reading more on what features Raptor Lake is said to bring, such as this:

Intel Raptor Lake CPUs To Feature Digital Linear Voltage Regulator ‘DLVR’ – Could Help Reduce Power Consumption By 25%​

Intel Raptor Lake CPUs To Feature Digital Linear Voltage Regulator 'DLVR' - Could Help Reduce Power Consumption By 25%

Intel's 13th Gen Raptor Lake CPUs are going to feature new DLVR technology to help reduce power consumption and temperatures.

wccftech.com

Though of course it's obvious that a 24core CPU (lets assume similar IPC/frequency, though it's likely RPL with be higher than Zen4 on both) will consume more power than a 16 core CPU in MT workloads, and deliver much higher performance in such workloads.