Real failure rate?

JUMPURS said:
We are as good a test sample as any so what makes your 2.5% (from somewhere) more accurate than the 18% (which we have polled ourselves) for here??
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Because the test sample here isn't a fair sample. If I wanted to find out the % makeup of men/women/children in the country - would I get an accurate example if I stood in the middle of a town shortly after home time for either school or work? Would I get an accurate figure outside of a maternity clinic?

Same thing is happening here, if you have a problem (with anything technical) would you go to a technical forum... like this one? A quick google search for 'faulty Xbox 360' restricted to the UK quickly brings up the avforums thread. Do you think people with working Xbox 360s are going to go out of their way trying to find forums with failure rates for X360s? Conversely, do you think that people will go out of their way to find failure rates / help if their Xbox 360 has stopped working? The only place where you can get an accurate figure is to count the number of X360s going in and out of MS (out as in sold, in as in failed). According to MS a while back it was 2.5%, now they're saying its below the Industry average of 5% (presumably the figure will slowly increase to somewhere around the industry average once the X360 has been out for a while, which it seems to be doing if MS no longer give out the 2.5% figure). Its like trying to find out the % make up of Male/Female/Child when standing outside of a school at 8:30 - 9:00, you'll have a significantly higher proportion if Female/Child than is actually the case. The national census would probably be the best place to look.
 
LoadsaMoney said:
I do understand, but what im saying is say M$ made 1 million 360's, 500 thousand were faulty, thats half, now whos to say if they made 2 million that there would only be 1 million faulty, half again, no one knows they might have 1.5 million faulty, is that still half, nope, it could also be less, as maybe only 1.1 million from the 2 million might have gone faulty who knows, and in which case the failure rate would go down, it can go down as well as up.
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Usually bugs are ironed out of both the system and production process and % faults are reduced the longer the device is in production, also the technology matures and they will yield higher quality of better quality chips etc..
 
Firestar_3x said:
Would be interesting to have some release stats for the ps2 and % faulty units.
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Did a little searching and came up with this: http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla....id=psx2&message.id=1296372&page=1&format=all

I'm sure it would have been lower than 6% at launch (the faulty optical drives would be what increased it to 6%). For the people scared about lots of faulty X360s - assuming 100 million PS2s sold (as in that linked thread) - that means 6 million PS2s out there are faulty.

Comparitively, if you go by the number of complaints to Watchdog (regarding the PS2), the % failure rate is nearer 0.0036%.

Sony's official line is that the PS2 has a lower failure rate than the PSX, which means the PSX had a failure rate (potentially) higher than 6%.

The stories of the X360 failure rate are definitely being exaggerated. If there are any PS3 fanboys, they must be having a field day.
 
Boogle said:
Because the test sample here isn't a fair sample. If I wanted to find out the % makeup of men/women/children in the country - would I get an accurate example if I stood in the middle of a town shortly after home time for either school or work? Would I get an accurate figure outside of a maternity clinic?

Same thing is happening here, if you have a problem (with anything technical) would you go to a technical forum... like this one? A quick google search for 'faulty Xbox 360' restricted to the UK quickly brings up the avforums thread. Do you think people with working Xbox 360s are going to go out of their way trying to find forums with failure rates for X360s? Conversely, do you think that people will go out of their way to find failure rates / help if their Xbox 360 has stopped working? The only place where you can get an accurate figure is to count the number of X360s going in and out of MS (out as in sold, in as in failed). According to MS a while back it was 2.5%, now they're saying its below the Industry average of 5% (presumably the figure will slowly increase to somewhere around the industry average once the X360 has been out for a while, which it seems to be doing if MS no longer give out the 2.5% figure). Its like trying to find out the % make up of Male/Female/Child when standing outside of a school at 8:30 - 9:00, you'll have a significantly higher proportion if Female/Child than is actually the case. The national census would probably be the best place to look.
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You are trying to compair two totally different polling samples styles. The samples are acurate if used in the correct manner, which this one was about as accurate a sample as can be.
The poll didnt give a percentage of the population that owned an xbox360, but can give a good reflection on the xbox 360 owners who have had problems. The poll also isnt opened to the public so people jsut doing a google search are not eligable to participate, only if they are registered with ocuk, a process which can take a while.
In that respect it is about as acurate as standing in Glasgow town center asking random people if they own an xbox then if they say yes, take the sample data from there answer after that.
So i do think it gives about as acurate a sample as you can get, even if you +-5% it could be as low as 15% but then again it could be as high as 25%.
I for one would take this sample over a 'somewhere below industry standard' for a failure rate (did they even mention the industry? the 360 can cover several, home electronics, home digital entertainment, household good, computer system, any, for which if you dont know then that information is useless
 
who cares really?

As long as the console works or you get a replacement in good time when it breaks??

Its like any ellecy product you buy, it could fail at any point. Bang oooppps there goes your hard disk. Pop there goes your monitor.

Whats the ranting about the failures gonna resolve? At the end of the day if its a production issue i am sure ms will resolve it, cause at the end of the day whos pocket is it really gonna hit? Bill's.

He's not going to want a product on the shelf that goes pop every 2 weeks is he.

So chill, if it fails then so be it. If it dont then get on with playing on it :D
 
JUMPURS said:
You are trying to compair two totally different polling samples styles. The samples are acurate if used in the correct manner, which this one was about as accurate a sample as can be.
The poll didnt give a percentage of the population that owned an xbox360, but can give a good reflection on the xbox 360 owners who have had problems. The poll also isnt opened to the public so people jsut doing a google search are not eligable to participate, only if they are registered with ocuk, a process which can take a while.
In that respect it is about as acurate as standing in Glasgow town center asking random people if they own an xbox then if they say yes, take the sample data from there answer after that.
So i do think it gives about as acurate a sample as you can get, even if you +-5% it could be as low as 15% but then again it could be as high as 25%.
I for one would take this sample over a 'somewhere below industry standard' for a failure rate (did they even mention the industry? the 360 can cover several, home electronics, home digital entertainment, household good, computer system, any, for which if you dont know then that information is useless
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5% comes from MS, in a couple of interviews. First Google result to come up was Wikipedia: http://wiki.xboxic.com/Xbox_360. Other searches came up with many 3% figures, some 5% figures, and so forth, none above 5% thus far though.

The poll is still not reliable. There are thousands of people regged on this forum (probably over 100k by now, before the wipe ages back the user count was way over 100k). Some will have multiple accounts, some will hate MS, some will be serious PS3 fanboys. It only takes a small number of votes against the leader to make the lagging option catch up somewhat.

I'm sure the results would be quite different if we required the person to take a picture of the Xbox they own, and also note the serial number. That way you guarantee that almost all votes are valid.

I doubt MS are lying either, it wouldn't take much for a 'rumour' that the failure rate is 15% to spread like wildfire. Just need one person on the inside to idly mention the real figure, and MS will suddenly look very bad - assuming of course the real figure was in fact 15%. Press would love it, Sony would love it, MS would hate it :p
 
JUMPURS said:
You are trying to compair two totally different polling samples styles. The samples are acurate if used in the correct manner, which this one was about as accurate a sample as can be.
The poll didnt give a percentage of the population that owned an xbox360, but can give a good reflection on the xbox 360 owners who have had problems. The poll also isnt opened to the public so people jsut doing a google search are not eligable to participate, only if they are registered with ocuk, a process which can take a while.
In that respect it is about as acurate as standing in Glasgow town center asking random people if they own an xbox then if they say yes, take the sample data from there answer after that.
So i do think it gives about as acurate a sample as you can get, even if you +-5% it could be as low as 15% but then again it could be as high as 25%.
I for one would take this sample over a 'somewhere below industry standard' for a failure rate (did they even mention the industry? the 360 can cover several, home electronics, home digital entertainment, household good, computer system, any, for which if you dont know then that information is useless
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I'd say standing in a town centre would be more accurate as you'd tend to ask first "Do you own an Xbox 360?" Whereas with the poll I can guarantee that a lot of folks who don't have a 360 voted to say they had a broken one :) I know when I voted on that poll there was no verification to weed out the fanboys.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Open your eyes and look around so many people are anti MS its untrue, thats hard simple fact much like those figures above. ******Edit, i didn't say eveyone with something bad to say about the 360 was doing so cause they are anti MS
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I've got an XBox360 that I love, but I don't like Microsoft - what camp does that put me in?
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Firestar_3x said:
The non predijust camp...........
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That's the point - the sooner people start realising that you can like a product without wanting to buy shares in the manufacturer, the better.
 
I didn't even vote on the poll about the xb360's and I have delivered around 17ish and only 1 so far has broken (well 1 of the fans was making more noise than what it should have so it didn't technically stop working)
 
deSade said:
That's the point - the sooner people start realising that you can like a product without wanting to buy shares in the manufacturer, the better.
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Yeah i like my xbox360 i had a lot of fun with my xbox, but think ms are a bunch of liars out to screw people and the world. Think the fact my boss loves them soooo much doesnt help my views lol
 
I'd be more interested in the breakdown of the type of faults these xbox 360's are having. You would expect any mass produced item to see all sorts of mechanically related faults which count towards your total failure rate, but I'd be more interested in how many of them are down to heat related problems through improperly fitted heatsinks or power supply, as it seems to me these are the things which are more suspeptible to the "fails one day, is fine the next" scenarios which some people seem to try to live with, which may also be hiding a more long term problem with the console. It would also be worse if it is a gradual deterioration that is going on. That's the thing which worries most people who are dithering about getting one I'd bet.
 
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