really getting fed up with the posts stating RTX/DLSS does not work this gen

sunshinewelly · 16 Aug 2019 at 12:01

thought i would lob this grenade and see what develops. up until a few weeks ago all i read was stories over how RTX was useless on this gens GPUs and how DLSS was also useless.

then i read a few other counter posts (especially once metro exodus was updated) to say the experience has improved.

so i bit the bullet bought a 2080 amp extreme (so its on par with a 2080 super) and have been experimenting with metro exodus.

the experience RTX brings to the table is to be better than HDR. I am not convinced that RTX will be necessary for all games ie fast action shooters spring to mind but on a game like metro which is all atmosphere then the addition of RTX is great.

also to my tired eyes the image DLSS looks identical on my 4k TV when on or off.

obviously those wanting high frame rates and 4k are not going to be satisfied. But for me who's TV is caped at 60fps anyway playing metro at around 45 fps on a xbox controller is fine

its clear that DLSS will continue to improve as well - metro's implementation has got better since patched.

most of the negative metro posts pre-date the patch.

this website has a post patch update review and its all very rosy

https://hothardware.com/reviews/metro?page=3

sunshinewelly · 16 Aug 2019 at 15:36

20/20 vision here mate

sunshinewelly · 19 Aug 2019 at 12:11

Grim5 said:
That demo runs at 50fps on a 2080ti, whats the problem
It's a realtime demo, no CGI

how did you unlock the 24fps cap

sunshinewelly · 20 Aug 2019 at 09:35

ultimately nvidea cant please everyone. For me RTX this current gen is a nice bonus. Of course it will improve overtime but i am happy to be an early adopter. It certainly adds to metro exodus. Users experiences will vary and those who demand high frame rates will probably fall in the hate camp. For me however who has been gaming since the days of the atari 2600 high frame rates are not a high priority. My set up on a 4 k tv will only allow me to game at a maximum of 60fs anyway and in most single player games i play there is not a whole difference in experience playing at 45 fps to 60 fps. I am the type of gamer who does not knock on game mode on my TV as i dont worry about lag and for me the best experience is the quality of the image rather than fps. I have done the DLSS test on a couple of my mates now and not one has been able to see a difference in metro with dlss on or off. I have not tried in on other games but for metro its no longer an issue. my understanding is that DLSS will also improve over time - it has on metro anyway

sunshinewelly · 21 Aug 2019 at 19:51

aoaaron said:
haters are gonna hate.

that looks incredible. would a 2080 play it ?

ICDP said:
I have a 2080 and DLSS is Shadow of the Tomb Raider and in Metro Exodus is a blurred quite considerably. I game at 4K and if anyone claims DLSS looks just as sharp as native are deluding themselves.

Have you played it with the update as its quite clear from the recent updated comparisons that metro with dlss is not blurry.

sunshinewelly · 21 Aug 2019 at 19:52

aoaaron said:
haters are gonna hate.

that looks incredible. would a 2080 play it ?

ICDP said:
I have a 2080 and DLSS is Shadow of the Tomb Raider and in Metro Exodus is a blurred quite considerably. I game at 4K and if anyone claims DLSS looks just as sharp as native are deluding themselves.

Have you played it with the update as its quite clear from the recent updated comparisons that metro with dlss is not blurry.

These guys must be lying then as well as others online

https://hothardware.com/reviews/metro?page=3

sunshinewelly · 22 Aug 2019 at 12:02

Grim5 said:
Yes

I mentioned already that whether I use nvidia dlss or amd cas sharpening I can’t tell any difference- it’s because I game on a tv and sit further away than I would on a desktop.

That’s why I love games that give you a resolution scale option - I can easily drop it to 85% and it looks just like 100% for me - it means gaming on a TV is less resource intensive than a desktop

same here - pc gaming on a 75 inch 4K TV is much more immersive than sitting in front of a monitor (thats another discussion thread right there). DLSS for my set up is brilliant. No change in image quality and a big improvement in FPS

sunshinewelly · 22 Aug 2019 at 19:16

melmac said:
Ooopsss!! Sorry, I forgot.

Yes you are correct nvidea do make the best gpus

sunshinewelly · 23 Aug 2019 at 09:36

TNA said:
Nope. But there are loads of screenshots and videos online showing what DLSS offers and it does not live up to what it was hyped up to be and the same can be achieved without any DLSS which makes it underwhelming. Might get better yet though with better AI training. Hopefully as I will be getting a 3000 series card and it will come handy as I do game at 4K when I game.

brilliant so you post about how terrible DLSS is yet you have not even tried it yourself. The reason i started the thread in the first place was due to posters like you who attack DLSS /RTX yet have not even tried it themselves. Hopefully this thread will be of use to those sitting on the fence about whether to get this generations RTX cards. I am very glad i took the leap as metro exodus in its current form is amazing with RTX and DLSS

sunshinewelly · 23 Aug 2019 at 11:50

james.miller said:
But dont you sit far enough away from your big screen that you cant see the difference DLSS is making ? I'm not saying that approach is wrong but I'm curious as to why you would start a thread to bemoan people who are slating DLSS when you sit too far away to see what it's doing yet you're trying convince everybody else that DLSS is great?

I dont know. The real problem with DLSS is that it's a massive programming workload for not much gain. Every game has to be coded for it, every game needs 'AI' learning which is why I think people keep mentioning Metro and not much else - because Metro is the one thats improved the most. That's great, I guess all we need to do is wait for every other game to catch up too?

I sit at round 7 foot from my TV so at 75 inches i notice a difference between full 4K and 1440p. I also notice a very small difference if using resolution scaling at 80%. (usually on text in games)

I notice no difference in metro with DLSS on or off. so for me DLSS is better than 80% scaling

sunshinewelly · 23 Aug 2019 at 13:28

The purpose of my post was that hopefully people will not be put off by DLSS. Clearly it works for some of us

sunshinewelly · 27 Aug 2019 at 16:07

Still here keeping the faith

sunshinewelly · 28 Aug 2019 at 11:39

for some reason i cant get nvidea sharpening to work with the windows store version of metro exodus.

i have it working with everything else and its very good from the tests i have done. for example assassins creed odyssey looks identical at 4k or at a 80% resolution modifier with sharpening applied.

its a shame that you have to run geforce experience though as i do get game crashes when running that software

sunshinewelly · 28 Aug 2019 at 12:23

afterburner does not work well with metro. I have to load metro then load in afterburner once game has started

sunshinewelly · 28 Aug 2019 at 17:15

AthlonXP1800 said:
I played Control last night and played it for hours, ray tracing graphics is amazing and I am very surprised it ran very smooth at 70 fps at 1080p with all graphics option maxed out in 1st play. Turned on DLSS and I am very impressed with image quality, it ran at 150 fps at 1080p then moved on to 1440p get 45 fps and turned on DLSS boosted fps to 70 fps, but at 4K it was unplayable at 20 fps and turned on DLSS 1440p scaling get 40 fps and DLSS 1080p scaling get 60 fps. Impressive.

I loved played Quantum Break many times and Control blew me away with all ray tracing effects enabled, that with ray tracing lightings, reflections, shadows and it added new ray tracing effect called debris which is first time it use in Control.

I really think Control is the ray tracing killer game that has best showcase of ray tracing. Thank you Remedy and Nvidia.

I am tired of all negative posts. Ray Tracing and DLSS is WORKED this gen!

What gpu are you using

Glad you enjoyed it

sunshinewelly · 29 Aug 2019 at 08:57

IT Troll said:
DLSS is doing a good job and at almost zero performance cost. But is it any better than 1440p with Nvidia's new CAS-style Sharpening filter?
I suspect not and so in which case replacing Tensor cores with more RT cores would be a better use of silicon.

why do you suspect not ? you have not tried it.

this game is a great showcase for RTX. its next gen here and now. I have not played a game where i spend so much time looking at the scenery around me. its a cracking game.

running on my 2080 on high preset at 4K (DLSS at 1440p setting) and RTX set to high getting around 45 to 49 fps. as someone who also plays on an xbox one x then that fps is fine for me.

sunshinewelly · 29 Aug 2019 at 11:41

IT Troll said:
Based on comparisons done with other DLSS titles. I can't see why Control would be any different. Have you tried it?

yes i have tried it and hence why i am able to comment - came free with my rtx 2080.

sunshinewelly · 29 Aug 2019 at 14:15

humbug said:
Because Image sharpening does the same thing, only in a lot of games better, much better, i understand that Control is a good implementation of it but for most games its really not good.

Nvidia Image Sharpening just works.

An old example of Native 4K, RIS and DLSS 4K, Radeon Image Sharpening, in the middle is at 1640P, it actually looks better than native 4K, 4K DLSS just looks crap. Nvidia Image Sharpening looks the same as RIS. Its the same thing.

you have picked a purposelessly bad example of DLSS to support your argument yet all the other other games with DLSS ie metro , shadow tomb raider , FFX , Monster Hunter and now control it simply works and works well. Therefore to say that it does not work in most games is not only wrong but misleading. It seems that it does not work in battlefield but in the other games it does so. Also sharpening can be used on top of DLSS as well if you want to .

I notice that the majority of those slagging off DLSS do not have RTX cards.

sunshinewelly · 2 Sep 2019 at 22:24

VincentHanna said:
Been playing Control over the weekend on 2080Ti with Ray Tracing.

Resolution: 3840x2160
Render Resolution: 2560x1440

DLSS: off

Been using most settings recommended by Digital Foundry

Ray Traced Reflections on
Ray Traced Transparent Reflections on
Ray Traced Indirect Difused lighting on
Ray Traced Contact Shadows: off
Ray Traced Debris: off

I haven't put Afterburner on, but it feels like it stays above 60fps.

Rockpapershotgun also had recommendations specific for each GPU. This is for the 2080Ti
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...ow-to-get-the-best-ray-tracing-performance/6/

4k with Ray Tracing is basically a no-no.

For some reason they could not get dlss to work. It certainly works on my system on this game

sunshinewelly · 3 Sep 2019 at 09:53

ICDP said:
Look at the barrel in the Quantum Break screenshot compared to the one in the Control screenshot (RTX off). The one in quantum break has far more contrasting shadows.

I have an RTX 2080 and when playing Control with RTX off I was truly gobsmacked at how flat and dated it looked. Then I realised it looks like they have gimped the RTX off to make RTX on look better. Classic Nividia trick and they used to do the same with PhysX.

nonsense

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-control-pc-a-vision-for-next-gen-rendering

that video explains very well how even without RTX the games effects have not been gimped as you say