Receiving calls from customers.

[Helium_Junkie]

I'd love to become a solicitor based purely on experience and brainpower without any professional training!

You could learn all you needed from your local library and sitting in the back of a courtroom.
You could then legally represent yourself and possibly win your case. Save yourself some money too!
You probably wouldn't be allowed to present yourself as a solicitor, because you lack any formal qualification, but that wouldn't stop you being able to do it.

 

[dangerstat]

Well, how about a notable example? Einstein. Scientist.
Wrote his first thesis without any "training", having picked up a few books and read them.
Does this mean he wasn't smart? Do his theories not count now that you know that?

You don't need expensive training to learn to build furniture (skilled labour). If you are smart enough to work out why a design didnt work, you are smart enough to rebuild it right. That's experience and brainpower

You can learn things yourself you know, you dont have to throw money at a problem.

And no, a doctor wouldnt be an example of what I am trying to describe, obviously...

'Wrote his first thesis without any "training" '
Einstein studied physics at ETH! It's his work in 1905+ that he is remembered for, funnily enough after he got his degree (shocking!). He didn't write a thesis prior to enrolling at ETH, he wrote a paper, NOT a thesis!

 

[Helium_Junkie]

'Wrote his first thesis without any "training" '
Einstein studied physics at ETH! It's his work in 1905+ that he is remembered for, funnily enough after he got his degree (shocking!). He didn't write a thesis prior to enrolling at ETH, he wrote a paper, NOT a thesis!

A paper you know about, which kinda hints that he WAS remembered for it
Paper/thesis... just a term that I got wrong. OK, so he wrote a PAPER before receiving any expensive training. Better?
It's still work that he did that showed his brilliance without having spent money to learn.

 

[Helium_Junkie]

Becuase you are there. My dad does the same, but he wouldnt call an IT guy if I wasnt there and if he did and got '£35 an hour' he'd say 'Err I'll call you back' which YET AGAIN is answering Huddys original point.

I'm not arguing that. I don't think anyone has...

It was your comparison of It tech to skilled labour (and the subsequent devaluing of an IT Techs knowledge) that I'm discussing.

 

[dangerstat]

A paper you know about, which kinda hints that he WAS remembered for it
Paper/thesis... just a term that I got wrong. OK, so he wrote a PAPER before receiving any expensive training. Better?
It's still work that he did that showed his brilliance without having spent money to learn.

No, I watched a program a while back on Einstein - I certainly don't know the title of it. Secondly how can you say
"It's still work that he did that showed his brilliance without having spent money to learn."
Have you read it? Are you a physicist? And no it didn't show his brilliance, what showed his brilliance was is work from 1905, after he'd attended ETH!!!!!!

 

[Royal Fleet]

There seems to be a lot of arguing over semantics and definitions here, none of which you will ever agree on.

Simple fact is a fair price is what a customer is prepared to pay for the value they perceive they will receive. As long as AH has enough people who think £35 achieves that they he has a business, and as it seems he has it must be a fair price to enough people. Simple economics.

You could have the same pointless argument about anything really, Omega watches, BMW cars, etc. The actual production cost is immaterial, it is the price people are willing to pay that is relevant.

 

[Helium_Junkie]

No, I watched a program a while back on Einstein - I certainly don't know the title of it. Secondly how can you say
"It's still work that he did that showed his brilliance without having spent money to learn."
Have you read it? Are you a physicist? And no it didn't show his brilliance, what showed his brilliance was is work from 1905, after he'd attended ETH!!!!!!

No, what showed his brilliance is that ETH allowed him to enrol even after he FAILED his entry exam (which he had to take due to not previously having any educational background in that area...), because he showed exceptional understanding in certain fields (maths/physics).

This is a ridiculous argument

My point was that computing is something we are all subjected to in large doses, and so some of us will learn a great deal from this experience. If we all had to build aour own furniture all the time the same would occur, and I guess that would no longer class as "skilled labour". But not everyone has this knowledge, and so it's a valuable commodity worth paying for, just as much as its worth paying for someone to plumb your sink, someone to change the tyres on your car, someone to build you a swimming pool.

Right, I have to do some work or I'll get fired Bye!

 

[Brian Stuart]

There seems to be a lot of arguing over semantics and definitions here, none of which you will ever agree on.

Simple fact is a fair price is what a customer is prepared to pay for the value they perceive they will receive. As long as AH has enough people who think £35 achieves that they he has a business, and as it seems he has it must be a fair price to enough people. Simple economics.

You could have the same pointless argument about anything really, Omega watches, BMW cars, etc. The actual production cost is immaterial, it is the price people are willing to pay that is relevant.

Some common sense at last. Market forces will always out.

 

[dangerstat]

No, what showed his brilliance is that ETH allowed him to enrol even after he FAILED his entry exam (which he had to take due to not previously having any educational background in that area...), because he showed exceptional understanding in certain fields (maths/physics).

Right, I have to do some work or I'll get fired Bye!

My life you talk some carp. Firstly he'd been introduced to Euclids work from a very young age. No wonder he passed the physics and maths part of ETH's entrance exam and no wonder (as they're known for being excellent in the technical areas) they let him in. Getting into ETH != brilliant! It's quite simple he did exception work after being at ETH and not before, are you trying to suggest that he hadn't gone on to write of his works post 1901 he would still be remembered as a genius? Of course not, don't be soft.

Hang on a second I didn't make the english language entrance requirements for my uni course (not because I'm foreign but truly horrendous at English) but got in because I'd been predicted straight A's at Alevel? Am I a genius, maybe I should retire and bask in my glory, how come people aren't coming and filming me?

 

[Helium_Junkie]

stuff...

You've completely danced around my point... that he learnt the stuff that got him into school on his own. What he did afterwards and the fact that he gained fame is entirely irrelevant. You can spout as much information as you like about his post school work, but it's in no way related to what I was saying

And I don't think Einstein would pay £35 for a PC tech anyway hehe.

This is a farce You can keep ranting if you like but I'm gonna get some lunch!

 

[brainchylde]

I got bored reading this thread half way through. It's simple supply and demand. You are worth what people are willing to pay. Regardless of the skilled/unskilled argument or the 'a plumber is worth more because he has qualifications' tripe. I'm not saying £35 is the right amount. I would tend to offer a flat fee. £50 quid for a OS re-install, £100-150 if you want your documents retrieved before hand. I may be tempted to charge per hour if the job is open ended - (i.e. they don't want an OS re-install, rather a fix and you aren't sure how long it would take).

Having said that, there are a couple of points which basically say 'you can charge what you want - someone will pay it!'

1) There are MANY people out there who simply do not know how to fix a computer. I work in the IT Dept of a educational establishment [Software Dev]. We have ~600 staff. You can guarantee that, daily, a lonely soul will wander into the office with usual 'at home.. my printer has stopped working'.. or 'my internet is really slow'.. or 'my computer just won't load up'. This has become enough of a problem that we now don't really tend to give out any advice and we usually refuse any support on items which aren't owned by the college. So there is most definitely a market for the PC-Man.

2) There is an intrinsic value attached to a person's e-life. All their documents, spreadsheets, chat logs, pictures.. whatever. If they can't log in to their machine, as far as they are concerned these items are at risk. They will pay a fair amount to retrieve these items alone - without you getting their computer working again! £35/hr is small change to some people where this is concerned. They have never heard of backups and if you told them about backing up, it would be in vain.

3) It is skilled work. FACT. If it wasn't, IT support wouldn't even exist! Every man and his dog would be able to fix their PC. No-one is saying you can't learn how to, but at the same time, there is nothing stopping me learning how to re-wire a house, install new central heating. It's all subjective. If you know how to do it - it's not a problem, If you don't - it is. Knowledge is power.


So anyway. That's my first post outta the way.. onwards and upwards!!!

 

[Janesy B]

£35ph for workshop repairs plus any parts. It's pretty much what everyone else charges in the area.

thats nothing, the rates my company charges are:

£60 + £20 Collection and Delivery + Parts for workshop repair

or

£180 minimum half day engineer callout.

Robbery!

 

[suarve]

£35ph for workshop repairs plus any parts. It's pretty much what everyone else charges in the area.

Bloody Hell. For what you're actually doing, that's a pretty good hourly rate there. Seriously nice work if you can get it.

I only do it for friends and family very occassionally. Charged a mate £25 and a few pints for installing a router, connecting 4 pcs and a 360 to it. Wish I'd have charged more now. Again, for what I actually did I was chuffed with the rate of pay (reckon it took me about 1hr 30 mins as he weanted cables putting the carpet, which was a pain).

We've just had a plaster in and they charged £25 ph.

 

[Ant C]

On the BMW forum I post on, 5% of them could do their own bodywork repairs and only 20% of them service their cars themselves and I've already said the technician at your local main dealer who does oil services is not a skilled labourer either.

But can they put a BMW stamp in the logbook?

Skilled labour or not, I think £35 is a fair hourly rate considering there are often follow up calls etc that go uncharged in pc repairs.

I would rather pay more for someone who has experience and can get the job quickly, over someone who will take twice as long and not do such a good job.

 

[monkeyspank]

They are suprised at your price and wish to check the competion first. If they then find you are reasonably priced they will call back.

£35 an hour does seem very expensive for unskilled manual labour - most car bodyshops charge less than that for skilled bodywork repairs (My local BMW franchised dealerships bodyshop is £36 an hour) so to find that fixing a home PC costs a similar amount to skilled repairs to a damaged £20k car is a shock to some.

It's certainly a shock to me. I'd have expected your rates to be more inline with the money charges by a window cleaner or a gardener - our gardener charges £15 an hour and his work is no easier than yours. This is what most people will think and this is why you get the response you do.

Same here. If you can get skilled rates then fair play, but I know loads of people that can do this sort of thing without too much effort.
You don't even need to be at the PC for most of it.

 

[Tefal]

Simple fact is a fair price is what a customer is prepared to pay for the value they perceive they will receive. As long as AH has enough people who think £35 achieves that they he has a business, and as it seems he has it must be a fair price to enough people. Simple economics.

You could have the same pointless argument about anything really, Omega watches, BMW cars, etc. The actual production cost is immaterial, it is the price people are willing to pay that is relevant.

 

[monkeyspank]

True, but don't moan if somebody doesn't think that your set price is reasonable, especially if you know full well it's inflated.

 

[Welshy]

It cost me £35 to get a PC repair place to take my PC apart and find the component at fault, which I'm sure wouldn't have taken much more than an hour of their time.

Your price seems fair to me.