Recommend me a Martial Art
- Thread starter FishFluff
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Soldato
Originally posted by Ben S
Depends whether you want to do some thing effective that actually works (Muay thai, Kickboxing, Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ, Karate, Judo).
Or whether you just want something flashy to show off to your mates (kung fu, etc).
id say Kung Fu is more effective than karate...
the most effective way to become good at martial arts would be to become Buddhist and goto the Shaolin Temple and become a monk...
Associate
Jeet Kune Do
Bruce Lee's own style of fighting, cant get much more lethal than that geezer!
Bruce Lee's own style of fighting, cant get much more lethal than that geezer!
Soldato
He's a little dead to be leathal, anyway the Shaolin Monks are way more deadily than Bruce Lee ever was, there was a program on last night about them, the things they do make Bruce Lee look like Homer Simpson...
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Associate
Or go Taoist and train at Wudan
Associate
Jeet Kune Do is not a style, its a Philosophy. To be taught Jeet Kune Do is a contradiction in terms. You must first learn kung fu or whatever other art u want. Then you use refine it and use it in a way that suits your needs and strengths. Emphasize the effective bits, cut out the useless bits. So, everyones jeet kune do is different.
Also, Bruce would have more than matched up to the shaolins in terms of fighting. Remember, his Jeet kune do was all about effective fighting. That was the sole purpose of his training. Shaolin monks can achieve incredible feats of the human body for sure, and are damn impressive when it comes to wushu and weapons sets, but they are not trained solely to fight.
Again, id say do kung fu. Looks the best, is effective and a good old fashioned flash kick is bound to impress the ladies. Be warned however that it takes a number of years to get to a level that you can actually see any significant results as far as fighting is concerned.
Sure you can learn how to kick in a week (if you are mobile and strong enough), but learning how and when to apply that kick to its maximum potential with a live opponent is another matter. Youre talking a couple of years minimum, if you go twice a week at a good club. If you dont have that kinda time, then you would probably be better off doing some kinda grappling art such as judo or streetfighting as this is invariably what most street encounters end up as if you dont know how to handle the situation.
Also, Bruce would have more than matched up to the shaolins in terms of fighting. Remember, his Jeet kune do was all about effective fighting. That was the sole purpose of his training. Shaolin monks can achieve incredible feats of the human body for sure, and are damn impressive when it comes to wushu and weapons sets, but they are not trained solely to fight.
Again, id say do kung fu. Looks the best, is effective and a good old fashioned flash kick is bound to impress the ladies. Be warned however that it takes a number of years to get to a level that you can actually see any significant results as far as fighting is concerned.
Sure you can learn how to kick in a week (if you are mobile and strong enough), but learning how and when to apply that kick to its maximum potential with a live opponent is another matter. Youre talking a couple of years minimum, if you go twice a week at a good club. If you dont have that kinda time, then you would probably be better off doing some kinda grappling art such as judo or streetfighting as this is invariably what most street encounters end up as if you dont know how to handle the situation.
Associate
And a note on weapons,
When you train with weapons you will predominantly use them demonstratively, in forms or katas etc. You cant use weapons on the street and as Van_Dammesque says, if you decide to pull out 2 twin sabres when someone was asking the time, ure gonna be in trouble.
Weapons are cool though for showing off, but when you need to fight, youre better off with your hands and feet. Of course use keys or whatever else you might have on you, but training with weapons for combat is gonna be a bit pointless as youre not likely to be equipped with your favourite spear when the time comes to get physical.
When you train with weapons you will predominantly use them demonstratively, in forms or katas etc. You cant use weapons on the street and as Van_Dammesque says, if you decide to pull out 2 twin sabres when someone was asking the time, ure gonna be in trouble.
Weapons are cool though for showing off, but when you need to fight, youre better off with your hands and feet. Of course use keys or whatever else you might have on you, but training with weapons for combat is gonna be a bit pointless as youre not likely to be equipped with your favourite spear when the time comes to get physical.
Thanks again for al the advice guys. I'm nor trying to find either a kungfu or jujitsu club in my area, anyone know of any good ways to find one bar the phone book?
Also the weapons thing, I have no desire to use them in public I assure you.
Also the weapons thing, I have no desire to use them in public I assure you.
It's the instructor that matters, not the style. It's no good learning Wing Chun off the greatest master you can find if he's a rubbish teacher.
I was lucky enough to find a local wado-ryu club that that teaches applied karate jutsu rather than the usual competition oriented stuff, taught by a former doorman that has trained under a number of well known karateka, including Vince Morris and Rick Clark.
Essentially, we're learning classical wado-ryu, based on okinawan shuri-te and shindo yoshin ryu jujitsu rather than the modern day pure sports style that all too many clubs focus on.
A suprising number of people will maintain that karate has no grappling, throws, locks, takedowns, bars, cranks, groundfighting and so on. Just goes to show what you miss out on if you join a competition oriented sports club...
I was lucky enough to find a local wado-ryu club that that teaches applied karate jutsu rather than the usual competition oriented stuff, taught by a former doorman that has trained under a number of well known karateka, including Vince Morris and Rick Clark.
Essentially, we're learning classical wado-ryu, based on okinawan shuri-te and shindo yoshin ryu jujitsu rather than the modern day pure sports style that all too many clubs focus on.
A suprising number of people will maintain that karate has no grappling, throws, locks, takedowns, bars, cranks, groundfighting and so on. Just goes to show what you miss out on if you join a competition oriented sports club...
Permabanned
Fishfluff, finally my reply.....
1) British Ju Jitsu federation should be able to point you to a good club, see google or yellow pages for them.
Firstly, my background;
Black in JJitsu, Black in Karate, Green in Tae Kwando, Brown in Tai Jitsu, 2 years dabbling in Judo, kick boxing, ninjitsu, kung fu.
Full contact fighting at 70kg for a year (used to be skinny
)
Important Questions
1) Whats your build, weight, height
2) Whats your goals to get out of this?
3) Whats your mentality in terms of being attacked what would you be comfortable with as a response?
Styles
Tae Kwando
Okay i studied this art primarily because my friend was doing it and i wanted to use my 6 foot frame better at range. Having studied it beyond green (only graded so far then got fed up with the stupid mini belts) i can say the following;
Its a system of kicking and punching which is deeply flawed. Its really a sport, its not good for combat and its not good for the street. It has some lovely kicks but anyone who knows fighting will tell you instantly you would not kick about the groin in the street - thus most moves it teaches = dangerous to try in a combat environment.
Its good for flexibility and fitness but thats it. It has deep flaws in terms of blocking technique and also sparring does not allow many correct responses thus encourages ppl to think the moves are more effective than they are. EG cannot block a kick with your elbow or knee and cannot counter a leg clash with a butt, elbow or punch.
Conclusion : Dont bother its simply too flawed and dependant on foot speed with little real street value.
Kick Boxing
This is completely dependant on the four improper basics. This means it relies on what a style should not - it uses speed, strength, height, range. Two of those you are born with - poor core elements to rely on.
Its all about developing your speed and strength and using powerful kicks and punches to get your opponent to be too damaged to continue. Very little finesse in the art and have of the moves will get you in court on GBH. Poor street use in terms of bouncing and being able to control a situation. Also relies on quite long combat times.
Hardcore versions of this rely on your killing the nerves in your legs off - conditioning them. Note that also kick boxing had SERIOUS issues with boxers beating them in their own competitions so had to introduce a min no. of kicks per round rule. For this reason i regard this art as basic and flawed - how can a sole puncher beat kick boxing world champs otherwise?
Conclusion : Kick boxers are consistently beaten by boxers and JJ styles.
Kung Fu
My knowledge of this art is quite basic but i studied it to see what gains it could give me as a double black belt - what better moves / systems did it have?
It is a good art, it teaches good sparring, decent effective kicks nothing too flashy and the blocks are okay - not as good as JJ tho. It doesnt rely too much on the four basics and is suitable for smaller people. Its weapons are done earlier than black as i recall as well.
Conclusion : One of the better styles with not many weaknesses
Jitsu variants
The Compliant Art in every way. This system uses the core weaknesses of the body against your opponent no matter his strength or height or weight. Its excellent for smaller ppl as your lower centre of gravity works for you.
It uses excellent open and closed hand striking like ridge hands, web strikes, knuckle punches, chops etc to weaken your opponent for a throw into submission move. Its based on a 2 second encounter time - show me another art which can end the conflict in two seconds flat!
Tai Jitsu relies more on boxing and throwing than the purer JJ which relies on the kicks to sensible area's such as knee cap, groin, stomach as the weakener.
It will teach you left and right handed throwing by black and multiple person attack defenses using the opponents to shield you using the throws - by green you will competent enough to handle any attacker bar a specialist and by black you will be comfortable with two attackers.
The best thing about JJ is the blocking system, move and block never relies on the block, some VERY heavy blocks which can snap the arm etc. Good use of the knees and elbows also.
Typical encounter - Block, stun / weakener, throw into lock / choke / strangle / paralysing point.
Although sparring does exist and competitions the training more than gets you ready for multi style competitions, ground wrestling at end of each session makes it very good for brawls.
Conclusion : The best art i have studied and its way of flowing moves into each other gives you myriads of possible moves, it has no weakness i can see.
Its best point is the range of response you can just lock him up with no strikes to control him, you can inflict heavy pain no marks using pressure points, you can throw him, you can heavily strike him. Very good at anti weapon moves and is used by SWAT teams etc.
Does not rely on any physical attribute, brillant for women.
Karate
Various styles here from Shoto, Seidokhan to Wado Ryu etc.
If its a long stance reliant art its useless but its getting a lot more modern and good school with good teachers encourage street effectiveness.
Seidokhan in particular has good sparring and good range of attacking options. All i will say is the blocks are slightly worse than kung fu and 20% worse than JJ. No throws make it less effective but it does use hocks - tripping moves.
Shotokhan i found long stance based and ineffective
Wado Ryu having fought them i would rate similar to Seidokhan, good system just not the best there is.
Conclusion : Need a good teacher and school, its not much use as a doorman and reasonable on the street.
Overall Conclusion
I personally sought to find the best from each style and evaluate them against my style. I found ju jitsu practically impossible to beat, the blocks are world class to the stage no one could really hit me when i learned new styles without knowing their attack moves.This held up in full contact also.
No style should rely on those four cores of height, strength, speed, reach. a lot of them do - thus they are useless for women, small blokes and heavy people, you will get murdered in sparring and competitions cause you cannot get taller, get a longer fighting range etc.
Its important to have a range of response in terms of legally and in terms of your own philosophy the number of times i have used good pain moves which cause no damage to control abusive drunks is numerous. This is far superior to kicking them in the head and probably falling over cause you are drunk Mr Tae Kwando Also a throw is a far better way to disable someone rather than prolonged combat on the street, it also hurts to land on concrete with a dropped knee going into you 
1) British Ju Jitsu federation should be able to point you to a good club, see google or yellow pages for them.
Firstly, my background;
Black in JJitsu, Black in Karate, Green in Tae Kwando, Brown in Tai Jitsu, 2 years dabbling in Judo, kick boxing, ninjitsu, kung fu.
Full contact fighting at 70kg for a year (used to be skinny
)Important Questions
1) Whats your build, weight, height
2) Whats your goals to get out of this?
3) Whats your mentality in terms of being attacked what would you be comfortable with as a response?
Styles
Tae Kwando
Okay i studied this art primarily because my friend was doing it and i wanted to use my 6 foot frame better at range. Having studied it beyond green (only graded so far then got fed up with the stupid mini belts) i can say the following;
Its a system of kicking and punching which is deeply flawed. Its really a sport, its not good for combat and its not good for the street. It has some lovely kicks but anyone who knows fighting will tell you instantly you would not kick about the groin in the street - thus most moves it teaches = dangerous to try in a combat environment.
Its good for flexibility and fitness but thats it. It has deep flaws in terms of blocking technique and also sparring does not allow many correct responses thus encourages ppl to think the moves are more effective than they are. EG cannot block a kick with your elbow or knee and cannot counter a leg clash with a butt, elbow or punch.
Conclusion : Dont bother its simply too flawed and dependant on foot speed with little real street value.
Kick Boxing
This is completely dependant on the four improper basics. This means it relies on what a style should not - it uses speed, strength, height, range. Two of those you are born with - poor core elements to rely on.
Its all about developing your speed and strength and using powerful kicks and punches to get your opponent to be too damaged to continue. Very little finesse in the art and have of the moves will get you in court on GBH. Poor street use in terms of bouncing and being able to control a situation. Also relies on quite long combat times.
Hardcore versions of this rely on your killing the nerves in your legs off - conditioning them. Note that also kick boxing had SERIOUS issues with boxers beating them in their own competitions so had to introduce a min no. of kicks per round rule. For this reason i regard this art as basic and flawed - how can a sole puncher beat kick boxing world champs otherwise?
Conclusion : Kick boxers are consistently beaten by boxers and JJ styles.
Kung Fu
My knowledge of this art is quite basic but i studied it to see what gains it could give me as a double black belt - what better moves / systems did it have?
It is a good art, it teaches good sparring, decent effective kicks nothing too flashy and the blocks are okay - not as good as JJ tho. It doesnt rely too much on the four basics and is suitable for smaller people. Its weapons are done earlier than black as i recall as well.
Conclusion : One of the better styles with not many weaknesses
Jitsu variants
The Compliant Art in every way. This system uses the core weaknesses of the body against your opponent no matter his strength or height or weight. Its excellent for smaller ppl as your lower centre of gravity works for you.
It uses excellent open and closed hand striking like ridge hands, web strikes, knuckle punches, chops etc to weaken your opponent for a throw into submission move. Its based on a 2 second encounter time - show me another art which can end the conflict in two seconds flat!
Tai Jitsu relies more on boxing and throwing than the purer JJ which relies on the kicks to sensible area's such as knee cap, groin, stomach as the weakener.
It will teach you left and right handed throwing by black and multiple person attack defenses using the opponents to shield you using the throws - by green you will competent enough to handle any attacker bar a specialist and by black you will be comfortable with two attackers.
The best thing about JJ is the blocking system, move and block never relies on the block, some VERY heavy blocks which can snap the arm etc. Good use of the knees and elbows also.
Typical encounter - Block, stun / weakener, throw into lock / choke / strangle / paralysing point.
Although sparring does exist and competitions the training more than gets you ready for multi style competitions, ground wrestling at end of each session makes it very good for brawls.
Conclusion : The best art i have studied and its way of flowing moves into each other gives you myriads of possible moves, it has no weakness i can see.
Its best point is the range of response you can just lock him up with no strikes to control him, you can inflict heavy pain no marks using pressure points, you can throw him, you can heavily strike him. Very good at anti weapon moves and is used by SWAT teams etc.
Does not rely on any physical attribute, brillant for women.
Karate
Various styles here from Shoto, Seidokhan to Wado Ryu etc.
If its a long stance reliant art its useless but its getting a lot more modern and good school with good teachers encourage street effectiveness.
Seidokhan in particular has good sparring and good range of attacking options. All i will say is the blocks are slightly worse than kung fu and 20% worse than JJ. No throws make it less effective but it does use hocks - tripping moves.
Shotokhan i found long stance based and ineffective
Wado Ryu having fought them i would rate similar to Seidokhan, good system just not the best there is.
Conclusion : Need a good teacher and school, its not much use as a doorman and reasonable on the street.
Overall Conclusion
I personally sought to find the best from each style and evaluate them against my style. I found ju jitsu practically impossible to beat, the blocks are world class to the stage no one could really hit me when i learned new styles without knowing their attack moves.This held up in full contact also.
No style should rely on those four cores of height, strength, speed, reach. a lot of them do - thus they are useless for women, small blokes and heavy people, you will get murdered in sparring and competitions cause you cannot get taller, get a longer fighting range etc.
Its important to have a range of response in terms of legally and in terms of your own philosophy the number of times i have used good pain moves which cause no damage to control abusive drunks is numerous. This is far superior to kicking them in the head and probably falling over cause you are drunk Mr Tae Kwando
Also a throw is a far better way to disable someone rather than prolonged combat on the street, it also hurts to land on concrete with a dropped knee going into you 