Record Ronaldo Bid

NokkonWud said:
....even though he played less games than John O'Shea - and that was without injury.
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He was injured for ages last year.

Injuries are one of his big problems. He's constantly picking up serious injuries.
NokkonWud said:
People get carried away with players abroad and how good they are. They don't see as much, but from what they hear from foreign press, word of mouth or highlight reels (the most guilty party - highlight reels could make Wes Brown look the best defender on Earth).
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Tbf Nokkon you have more opportunity to watch 90mins of Messi than you do Ronaldo. Sky show more or less every single Barca and Real matches.
 
Anyway as for the whole Messi v Ronaldo debate I guess it depends on what you mean by "better." As I see it Messi has the better technique, scores more aesthetically pleasing goals and is, IMO, more exciting to watch but on the hand you can't argue with Ronaldo's stats.
 
I do watch a lot of Barcelona's games and I do watch all of Man Utd's, so I'd say I'm in a good position to comment. Let us not forget, I've not knocked Messi, I've actually said he's an excellent player - he is, but what I've also said is totally true and fair.
 
Visionary said:
Anyway as for the whole Messi v Ronaldo debate I guess it depends on what you mean by "better." As I see it Messi has the better technique, scores more aesthetically pleasing goals and is, IMO, more exciting to watch but on the hand you can't argue with Ronaldo's stats.
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Ronaldo takes people on with pace and power, hits with both feet, heads the ball, starts all fast counter attacks, scores all different sorts of goals (including the more aesthetically pleasing if you ask me - those freekicks for example) and Man Utd are probably the most exciting team to watch in the World right now and that's down to Ronaldo.

I'd say a lot of it is down to petty rivalry in this country. I'd hazard a guess if we were all Spanish in Spain then you'd be having a reverse argument.
 
NokkonWud said:
Ronaldo begins almost every move from the wing.....
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I agree. I was just saying he's not your old fashion winger who stays stuck to the touch line.

NokkonWud said:
Ronaldo developed that style, he was nothing like he is now when we signed him.
As for Torres getting more space, that's not true, he may be marked in different ways, but I watched a LOT of him in Spain. He's a far better player now, but Liverpool move MUCH better and develop space and supply him with balls leagues ahead of what Athletico could do.
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When i said style i was only really talking about attacking players with pace who like to run with the ball.

Not sure i agree about how teams defended in Spain though. Torres is certainly benefiting from playing with better players but it's true that teams over here play a lot higher up the pitch. Defences in Spain tend to play a lot deeper and often will have sombody sitting in front of them which cuts down the space for players who either like to run with the ball or in behind.
 
Cob said:
Like George Best?



Oh, wait...
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:confused: What are you talking about?

A traditional winger was sombody that played and stayed (90% of the time) on the wing. Like Giggs during the 90's.

Although the likes of Best played a similar role, the position and how reguarly it's used, that Ronaldo, Messi etc are playing is fairly new.
 
Cob said:
Such as George Best?
Oh, wait...
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I don't really understand what you mean but I'm certain that's not what BaZ was getting at.

He's talking about your traditional wide players who hug the touchline and see it primarily as their job to get a yard of space and cross it. Ronaldo does all that and a lot more which he acknowledges.
 
NokkonWud said:
No he wasn't. Larsson was class, but he was in the Scottish leagues and played for Sweden. Would he have done the job in England? Definitely, but he wouldn't have been as prolific.
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I've got no problem with the rest really but do we have to do this again. Larsson is one of the best players to have come to the British Isles, simple as that, he just happened to play in Scotland at the peak of his career. Or if you want to put it this way, he went to England when he was in his dotage as a footballer (so to speak) and still played for Man Utd to prove himself a class act, you missed him when he left and if memory doesn't fail me he managed about a goal every two games which isn't too bad for someone knocking on for 35.
 
Ronaldo's header against Roma (with Scholes assist) has to be one of the goals of the season

it was a central strike but he ran from near the left wing / half way line as I recall - now I dont know about you, but I wouldnt say a "traditional" winger would have had anything to do with that goal, its just how Man Utd play currently that allows it to happen

It also makes it harder for the other team to man mark - because of how the front quartet rotate positions, defenders risk being taken out of position drastically if they try and man-mark

Ronaldo will always predominantly be a winger no matter how he plays
(is Rooney a winger ? He has after all played a fair few games in that position for Man Utd in Europe and in the EPL - he will always be a out and out striker though)
 
At the moment Ronaldo is better than Messi. In a player like Messi we can see enormous potential combined with great talent. I'm curious to see where this guy goes in the coming seasons.
Ronaldo is still young and has already started hitting the high notes, I'm looking forward to Barca Man Utd as that could be one of the greatest games we've seen for years. Or it could be a bit disappointing tbh. My opinion is that it will be the former and a stunning game!
Just hope Chelsea don't win as they've not been wonderful (imo) in Europe this season.


And Ronaldo is demonstrating a new generation of wingers/forwards. He can do everything and has the skill to not need to stick to the wing and to come inside. He plays the role of two players pretty much. What more could a football fan want to see in a player?
 
semi-pro waster said:
I've got no problem with the rest really but do we have to do this again. Larsson is one of the best players to have come to the British Isles, simple as that, he just happened to play in Scotland at the peak of his career. Or if you want to put it this way, he went to England when he was in his dotage as a footballer (so to speak) and still played for Man Utd to prove himself a class act, you missed him when he left and if memory doesn't fail me he managed about a goal every two games which isn't too bad for someone knocking on for 35.
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I did say he was a class act, no denying it. But was he better than Shearer, Fowler, Owen, Sheringham, Cole, Henry, Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp?
I don't think so.

What I'm saying is Larsson was a class above any other striker in the SPL, but he wouldn't have been in the EPL.
 
NokkonWud said:
I did say he was a class act, no denying it. But was he better than Shearer, Fowler, Owen, Sheringham, Cole, Henry, Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp?
I don't think so.

What I'm saying is Larsson was a class above any other striker in the SPL, but he wouldn't have been in the EPL.
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Actually I'd take Larsson at his peak over any of those but I take the point that they are a lot closer in terms of ability than anyone else in the SPL at the time.

Unfortunately we'll never know if he would have been as prolific, it's unlikely but with a better team around him who knows?
 
semi-pro waster said:
Actually I'd take Larsson at his peak over any of those but I take the point that they are a lot closer in terms of ability than anyone else in the SPL at the time.

Unfortunately we'll never know if he would have been as prolific, it's unlikely but with a better team around him who knows?
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I'm slightly biased :p but I'd take Shearer out of them all, he did pretty much what all the others did but at a worse club, on the top of that he brought so much to the team in terms of leadership etc.
 
NokkonWud said:
I did say he was a class act, no denying it. But was he better than Shearer, Fowler, Owen, Sheringham, Cole, Henry, Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp?
I don't think so.

What I'm saying is Larsson was a class above any other striker in the SPL, but he wouldn't have been in the EPL.
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he was better than all of them apart from henry - he was probably on par with henry (henry at his peak)

zola, sheringham and cantona seriously are you having a laugh

owen is also overated - in fact all english players are overated for the simple fact its english people supporting them and the english press making mountains out of molehills

the top players of the past decade without a doubt are

Ronaldo (never played in EPL)
Ronaldhino (never played in EPL)
Zidane (never played in EPL)
Henry
Etoo (never played in EPL)
Adriano (never played in EPL)
Rooney
Kaka (never played in EPL)
Messi (never played in EPL)
Gerrard
Dejan Stankovich (never played in EPL)
Javier Zanetti (never played in EPL)
Ibrahimovich (never played in EPL)
Totti (never played in EPL)

theres a reason why england dont get far in any serious competitions like the world cup, the english league isnt the best, it may seem like it to you, but it isnt

there is no best league in the world because every league has a different style of play, the italians would argue theirs is the best, the spanish would argue theirs is and obviously you english are going to argue yours is

the simple facts are that if the english league is the best, then english players would be playing at a world class level, when was the last time england won anything as a country?? world war 2??

owen was meant to be amazing but failed to deliver for the national team, beckham only delivered from free kicks and you i would argue that i would rather have lampard and gerrard playing than beckham, rooney has still to play a few in a real major competition like the world cup, in the games he has played he did show strength, but he was still learning and has now improved he reminds me a bit of crespo who is another strong player, arguably crespo is better with his experience
 
Yeah that list is just rubbish, Adriano better than Van Nistelrooy? if Messi is in their then surely C. Ronaldo should be? Also love how there is only one defender. just feels like you've chosen that list to attempt to back up your point. And the reason that England haven't won a competition as a country is because the majority of clubs have mostly foreign players. The quality of a national team is completely separate to the quality of its league.
 
Shamikebab said:
Yeah that list is just rubbish, Adriano better than Van Nistelrooy? if Messi is in their then surely C. Ronaldo should be? Also love how there is only one defender. just feels like you've chosen that list to attempt to back up your point. And the reason that England haven't won a competition as a country is because the majority of clubs have mostly foreign players. The quality of a national team is completely separate to the quality of its league.
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but if your league is supposedly the best, then that raises the par, when you raise the par you get players trying harder, then that raises the ability of all players within the league, seince its an english league, the ability and skill of all the english players should be raised to its highest, therefore the national team should do well

if all these players were playing in the scottish league, the scottish players skills woild be more than doube to what it is currently, scotland would easily hump england 5-0, since scotland is now full of crap players, england would beat scotland only 2-0, which for a country with supposedly the best league in the world is extremely poor, compared to scotlands league which is a shambles currently
 
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