Recruiters eh

Well it comes from the first post where the recruiter says he'll need to take half a day off.

Even where I work where there is no set time or duration for lunch, I couldn't just email my boss saying yeah I'm going to be at a dentists appointment for 4 hours!
 
In his case the recruiter has arranged it for 5pm so he can give any random reason to have to come in early/leave earlier than usual.

I’ve had hospital appointments that have taken longer - for example I had an endoscopy that took a few hours of waiting, having the procedure etc... still went back to work late afternoon and carried on.

Working from home is an obvious one too. Can easily pop out for a bit and just work later etc...

The point is that this is a standard issue people face when looking for jobs and they generally don’t tell their employers they’re going for an interview for obvious reasons!
 
dry said:
Thanks, will probably bin it off.

Agree there's no point being petty and I understand most people go to 'doctors appointments' for interviews etc

He's a recruiter working for an agency- not directly employed by the company with the vacancy.

If there's one thing I've learnt it's that I don't want to work in recruitment or sales, lying and being overly pushy just doesn't sit right with me
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A good recruiter or headhunter is only going to put you in front of companies that you're going to want to work for - as such, you're more likely to make yourself available for interviews at inconvenient times of day. They should never confirm an interview at a time you've indicated you can't attend either. The likelihood of you being successful throughout the interview process, accepting the job and having a good start to the new role is largely dependent on you being interested in the opportunity from the outset. Recruiters that arrange interviews for opportunities that candidates aren't interested for are wasting your time, their time and the clients time.
 
Wow, that was a big argument. I feel dizzy.

To summarise: you shouldn’t lie about taking time off but some people are happy to risk it, even if the consequences are serious. The punishment depends on the company you work for and how seriously they will decide to treat the matter, if they want to gross misconduct is on the cards.
 
Recruiter sounds like a bell end, unless it was a job I was really interested in I'd sack them off.

Good recruiters are like gold dust, I have three recruiters I'm close to, all have placed me in roles previously or have found candidates for roles I've advertised. Having dealt with 40+ recruiters over the years, these are the only three that have impressed me.
 
A married couple where I work lied about being off sick, went for an interview at a company where our HR manager's husband works as the QA manager, he mentioned it to our HR manager as they both came from my employer and the result was them both being dismissed the following day.

Don't lie about it, take it as leave or be upfront.
 
danza said:
A married couple where I work lied about being off sick, went for an interview at a company where our HR manager's husband works as the QA manager, he mentioned it to our HR manager as they both came from my employer and the result was them both being dismissed the following day.

Don't lie about it, take it as leave or be upfront.
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Arguably the other company ought to sack or discipline the QA manager too if he can't keep things like that confidential. (see later on in this thread for example - someone got rumbled going for an interview and the company isn't happy with the person who gossiped him: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/boss-making-my-position-untenable.18868416/)

It is pretty important from the POV of lots of companies that confidential stuff like that isn't spread about - that QA manager is a bit of a dunce and in plenty of places would be fired... I mean what else does he tell his wife at the other company, I mean if his wife is at a rival company then that is even worse - the hiring manager at his firm would likely be furious.

Though pulling a sickie is rather silly, it's generally a very bad idea to be "up front" about going for an interview unless you're very sure you're going to get it because if you don't get it then the damage is done and you're going to look rather weak - easy decision for your manager come pay rise and bonus time, just don't bother giving you a pay rise or a bonus and be able to reward the rest of the team with a larger share of the pot.

Also you're if you're unable to take half a day as leave then explaining that you're thinking about leaving and would like to attend an interview isn't, in most cases, going to do you any favours or suddenly get your half day (or whatever time off you need) approved after it was already rejected as a general holiday request!

I don't think you need either tbh... you can do this intelligently without having to take holiday at short notice and/or tell them about the interview. How many people go to the hygienist every 3 months? It doesn't cost much but you can easily book an appointment like that... that's your dental appointment covered... it is unlikely that you will get rumbled going for an interview but if it does happen then you're covered, you did go for a dental appointment and have the receipt to prove it... that you also went for an interview too... meh, you don't have a duty to tell them that. So long as you've done the work you're supposed to do/made up the time by staying late etc.. (or just taken half a day's holiday with the reason "dental") then what can they do... you said you'd be out for X amount of time, you said you had a dental appointment (which you did have) you also went for an interview... so what... call it your lunch hour etc..

I mean if you say "I could really do with taking a few hours Wednesday afternoon, got a few things to sort, Dental appointment, post office and some errands/other stuff etc... will be aiming to be back around 4pm and will work late to make up the hours" then much less of an issue... the interview was the "other stuff" you had to do, you're under no legal obligation to tell anyone you're going for an interview and if you got that overdue hygienist appointment in afterwards too then there isn't any lie about the dental visit either.

There is also working from home - have a delivery arriving(but in the morning) /relative visiting etc.. you can quite easily have those things be true and also pop out for the interview.

Generally though better to avoid the issues - lunchtime interviews are a good idea or early morning interviews - ideally you want to be able to say you're going to be late one day with no questions asked or just keep things vague. If you're going to use a specific excuse and are worried about being caught then either make sure it can be backed up or can't be contradicted... (something that can also be true alongside the interview).

Actually going for an interview isn't a sackable offence in itself so just don't be silly with things like pulling fake sickies (something that actually directly costs the company money). If not using holiday days then make sure you are making up the time by working late etc...

Bottom line though - it does you absolutely no favours at all in the vast majority of cases to tell anyone you're going for an interview - it is absolutely something that you should remain quite about until you get an offer.
 
danza said:
A married couple where I work lied about being off sick, went for an interview at a company where our HR manager's husband works as the QA manager, he mentioned it to our HR manager as they both came from my employer and the result was them both being dismissed the following day.

Don't lie about it, take it as leave or be upfront.
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The QA manager is the one who should be sacked, that's terrible by him, what a snitch.
 
A2Z said:
The QA manager is the one who should be sacked, that's terrible by him, what a snitch.
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Most managers and above get their position by having ruthless tendancies and id expect nothing less. Doesnt mean it was right of the manager.

I worked in a place where the manager accepted people leave, and encouraged people to work as hard as they can, and take exams, to find that new job.
 
morbid42 said:
Most managers and above get their position by having ruthless tendancies and id expect nothing less. Doesnt mean it was right of the manager.
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Of course it wasn't right of him, but more importantly this incident of "ruthlessness" isn't something that is giving him any advantage in the firm or helping him climb the corporate ladder but something that is going to cause anger from other managers and could actively harm him - either by him being sacked or from a disciplinary and him being seen as a risk... QA managers aren't too senior.
 
Thought I was reading a ttaskmaster post with those multi-quotes Dowie... :p

Energize is right in as much as getting paid leave from work to attend an interview would be deemed as gross misconduct in most places of work - especially if it's for a competitor. Pulling a sickie or lying about a medical appointment is incredibly common, and by and large nothing will come of it provided you keep the entire thing to yourself and tell no one.

Personally I've always had managers that aren't complete twits meaning I've been able to be open and honest with them about attending interviews elsewhere and been actively encouraged.; In the instances where it hasn't led to new employment it hasn't hampered my then position though, I carried on with the same enthusiasm and level of performance as normal and I got rewarded as was - if that's different for you then I'd say you need a better manager personally. There's nothing worse than having employees who don't want to be there, having open discussions about personal progression and goals helps build a much better relationship that allows these sorts of scenarios in my experience. Heck, in once instance my manager took the information above him as ammunition to fund more courses and a pay rise to keep me - that's the sort of manager you want!
 
Well no one was advocating taking paid leave as in a sickie etc... (though taking a holiday should be fine).

The idea that you’d tell someone you’re going for an interview is just plain bad in a lot of cases. That isn’t anything to do with having a good manager etc...

Better to be up front with them in the first place re: your goals than drop something like that out of the blue. Aside from signalling that retaining you now could well be pointless (thus negatively affecting any upcoming pay rise/ bonus) if you don’t get the job then you don’t look great at all.
 
Interviewing within business hours is standard practice, most people either take PTO or just skive (WFH, sickness, etc). Its common place, i don't know why we're outraged at this?

However, a recruiter saying that I'm being 'ridiculous' would invoke my ire 100% of the time. Thats out of order.

@OP, I dont know the level, but often agency / 'exec' recruiters will want to get you in for an interview so they can say they've provided the company with '3 options', knowing full well 2 of them arent suitable.
 
bJN said:
Personally I've always had managers that aren't complete twits meaning I've been able to be open and honest with them about attending interviews elsewhere and been actively encouraged.; In the instances where it hasn't led to new employment it hasn't hampered my then position though, I carried on with the same enthusiasm and level of performance as normal and I got rewarded as was - if that's different for you then I'd say you need a better manager personally. There's nothing worse than having employees who don't want to be there, having open discussions about personal progression and goals helps build a much better relationship that allows these sorts of scenarios in my experience. Heck, in once instance my manager took the information above him as ammunition to fund more courses and a pay rise to keep me - that's the sort of manager you want!
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I sort've agree and disagree depending on the circumstances.

In the public sector I've had managers which encouraged me and the rest of the team to go on every available training course and even did mock interviews to help me prepare for higher up positions, even in the worst case your line manager has no real influence on your progression as recruitment has to follow a stringent policy. In the private sector though I would not mention an interview, in the best case you're gonna be no worse off, in the worst case they could make your life difficult, at the extreme end of the spectrum they could terminate your employment if you've worked there for less than two years.

SMN said:
However, a recruiter saying that I'm being 'ridiculous' would invoke my ire 100% of the time. Thats out of order.
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Absolutely, just seems like this recruiter has bad people skills. They should be bending over backwards to accommodate you if they think you are such a good prospect as to warrant approaching out of the blue.
 
Pushy recruiters took me from £50 a day to over £50k p/a. They might be a pain in the arse but they're a necessary evil, and you soon find out who the good ones are.
 
Diddums said:
Pushy recruiters took me from £50 a day to over £50k p/a. They might be a pain in the arse but they're a necessary evil, and you soon find out who the good ones are.
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Difference is you’ve clearly got some motivation etc... other people don’t - others won’t even be willing to move away from the town/county they grew up in etc... to look for work.
 
dowie said:
Difference is you’ve clearly got some motivation etc... other people don’t - others won’t even be willing to move away from the town/county they grew up in etc... to look for work.
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You're right, and although I've only been in this job for 18 months, I'm already getting seriously itchy feet. I'm genuinely considering starting my own business now, I just need to get over all the mental hurdles.
 
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