Red Bull Infiniti

I can understand why Mercedes, Ferrari and Mclaren-Honda were hesitant to give engines.

I bet they all knew this.

If I was Renault I'd be ****ed. I bet they contributed significantly to this new unit. Especially given the new unit they had offered Red Bull this season.
 
Guerrilla said:
It's not too bad for Renault, Infiniti is owned by Nissan I think and Nissan and Renault have an 'alliance' of sorts so its not like a huge rival's name is being slapped on it.
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Yes, but while Infiniti might (continue to) gain something, Red Bull have dragged Renault's name through the mud for two years, and will continue to do so (hopefully indirectly) until the engine rules change. Renault have gained what, some money from Red Bull from this? It can't just be that surely. I know Renault have hired Maldonado next year, so aren't flooding the old Lotus team with massive amounts of cash, but if they don't beat Red Bull in the next few seasons it's going to go from horrible to worse, surely? Unless they do something extraordinary they're going to go from losing with one of the best teams to losing to one of the best teams who have made their own engine better than they can. They'd have been better just cutting their losses and pulling out.

And as I've said twice now, I can see why Red Bull were trying every trick in the book in a fruitless attempt to secure cutting edge Mercedes or Ferrari power, but why flirt with Honda, who have trailed far behind Renault all year without showing any hope of leapfrogging them?

There's a couple of key things that still don't add up here.
 
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Guerrilla said:
It's not too bad for Renault, Infiniti is owned by Nissan I think and Nissan and Renault have an 'alliance' of sorts so its not like a huge rival's name is being slapped on it.
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If by 'alliance' you mean 'Renault purchased a ~37% stake in Nissan back in 1999 and took a company that was losing a ****-tonne of money into one that made a profit in no time at all'.....then yeah, they have an alliance of sorts.
 
this_is_gav said:
And as I've said twice now, I can see why Red Bull were trying every trick in the book in a fruitless attempt to secure cutting edge Mercedes or Ferrari power, but why flirt with Honda, who have trailed far behind Renault all year without showing any hope of leapfrogging them?

There's a couple of key things that still don't add up here.
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So they could learn all they can from competitors and incorporate it in their new engine design.
 
JRS said:
If by 'alliance' you mean 'Renault purchased a ~37% stake in Nissan back in 1999 and took a company that was losing a ****-tonne of money into one that made a profit in no time at all'.....then yeah, they have an alliance of sorts.
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Ah I see, I want aware of the details. I just termed reading something a while back.

this_is_gav said:
Yes, but while Infiniti might (continue to) gain something, Red Bull have dragged Renault's name through the mud for two years, and will continue to do so (hopefully indirectly) until the engine rules change. Renault have gained what, some money from Red Bull from this? It can't just be that surely. I know Renault have hired Maldonado next year, so aren't flooding the old Lotus team with massive amounts of cash, but if they don't beat Red Bull in the next few seasons it's going to go from horrible to worse, surely? Unless they do something extraordinary they're going to go from losing with one of the best teams to losing to one of the best teams who have made their own engine better than they can. They'd have been better just cutting their losses
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Yea it certainly hasn't been great on Renault, but I'm sure it'll soon blow over for them, they are a big enough company to deal with it and they aren't solely reliant on F1 for their advertising.

I'm glad red bull are staying for the fact that they have some exciting young drivers that I'd be a shame to lose, even potentially for just one season.
I'm glad Renault are due back too, not so much about Maldonado staying but maybe they are looking at it as a cash cow while they rebuild, who knows!
 
RBR currently get Renault engines for effectively free as the title sponsorship deal with Infiniti pays for them.

It's why I don't buy the crying from Renault about how they haven't got the recognition they feel they deserve for the years with RBR. It was Renault decision to plaster the cars in Infiniti logos and not Renault ones, so its their own doing.
 
andicole0 said:
As usual that got lost in the noise of that huge thread. We need more subforums to add individual discussions about specific subjects. "Motorsports" is too big a subject.
Andi.
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True.

But did you read certain members rubbishing Syla5 post :D

So the block will be made by Renault and the battery part by Nissan and put together at RB.
 
So let me try and get this right in my head, i'm mega confused with all the back and forth and the roumors etc that have been going around over the last few months.

Ok so, if understand this right, they will effectively use the renault spec block as it is at the start of the season, under the name of Infiniti, with a self engineered ERS system, with the intention of persuing a seperate upgrade program/token expendeture, under the supervision of Illien.
and this is all yet to be confirmed by either side?

interesting angle, this could work out very well for them in the long term.
where does this stand legally/regulations? will this effectively be another engine manufacturer?
 
How does it look good in the long term? The Renault engine is hardly a star, and they will be modifying an out dated version if it.

Sounds more like a last ditch attempt at staying in the sport due to having no other option to me...

Edit: Reading Autosport paints a very different picture too, and I'm more inclined to trust AS. Red Bull has until the Abu Dhabi GP to find an engine before Mateschitz pulls the plug. He's quoted as being not keen on some "complicated options". Horner is singing the praises of the FIAs external independent engine provider plan. And Riccardo has stated they will litterally take anything they can get because they want to race.

STR seem sorted with a 1 year old Ferrari. I'd say having those in the back of the RBR sounds the most likely.
 
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Skeeter said:
How does it look good in the long term? The Renault engine is hardly a star, and they will be modifying an out dated version if it.
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I was always under the impression that the ERS and turbo were the downfall of the renault engine, maybe i'm wrong, but with the ability to go their own way with engine development surly its not beyond the realms of imagination that they could sort out the issues and eventually produce something, although maybe not as good as merc, possibly equal to or just behind the ferrari.
I dunno, there dosnt appear to be any great solution for RBR engine woes, but the Illien developed engine seems to be one of the better of the limited options.
If it happens that is, I'm yet to read anything concrete, everything else i've read so far seems to quash these rumors, or at least cast huge doubt over them.
 
Unlike the Honda (where their entire turbo concept is utterly woeful) I don't think they have nailed the blame to a single area of the Renault have they? It's just not as good, and not very reliable.

Hardly the foundation for a few tweaks to turn it into a world beater.
 
andicole0 said:
Still a lot of denying going on and I have to wonder if Bernies bargain motor might come out of this.
Andi.
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Bring it on. It can only really result in one of the following outcomes:

  • It's so good that the other manufacturers bugger off, turning F1 into just another spec racing series
  • It's so bad that it dies a death within a couple of seasons
  • It's so average that the status quo is maintained
All of which work for me.
 
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