Red Bull Infiniti

LMP1 cars aren't twice the weight - minimum weight is 870kg rather than 701kg of F1 so not as heavy as you think.

However, as you say there are many reasons that the powertrains aren't going to go into an F1 car.
 
The LMP1 cars are almost as quick as the current F1 cars this year.

Fastest qualifying laps at Spa:
F1: 1:47.197
WEC: 1:54.767

Silverstone:
F1: 1:32.248
WEC: 1:39.721

Given the weight difference and the fact the LMP1 cars have to run for six hours and 24 at Le Mans, it makes a total mockery of the current generation of F1 cars and the whole "pinnacle of motorsport" rubbish. F1 cars should be an order of magnitude faster than this.
 
What surprised me when I saw the LMP1 cars at Silverstone is how small they are. Smaller than all the GTE cars by some margin, whereas the LMP2 cars are actually larger.

It is amazing what they do, but 7 seconds per lap is still colossal in motorsport terms (although the Silverstone time would likely be closer if it wasn't run in April with a track temp of about 15°C).

F1 is still the pinnacle in terms of outright lap time, and by some margin. I do wish that F1 would implement some of the prototype thinking though, especially in terms of aero.
 
F1 cars should be an order of magnitude faster than this.
Why? LMP1 is the pinacle of Sports car racing, and the teams have budgets likely larger than most, if not all F1 teams. With the massive aerodynamic advantage of closed cockpits and enclosed wheels, and 1,000bhp+, im surprised the gap isnt smaller.
 
That's my point - the restricted power and aero of the current F1 cars has resulted in them being barely any faster than LMP1.

F1 is so tied up in regulations and limitations that it simply doesn't deserve the "pinnacle of motor racing" moniker any longer. The drive to reduce laptimes by "five to six seconds" for 2017 is evidence that the powers that be have finally woken up to this fact. The public expects F1 to be markedly faster than any other form of motorsport.
 
The LMP1 cars are almost as quick as the current F1 cars this year.

Fastest qualifying laps at Spa:
F1: 1:47.197
WEC: 1:54.767

Silverstone:
F1: 1:32.248
WEC: 1:39.721

Given the weight difference and the fact the LMP1 cars have to run for six hours and 24 at Le Mans, it makes a total mockery of the current generation of F1 cars and the whole "pinnacle of motorsport" rubbish. F1 cars should be an order of magnitude faster than this.

Does it?

7+ seconds a lap slower around Spa with an aero advantage and roughly 10-20% more power (hugely depending on the car though, it has to be said) and a roughly 250kg weight penalty (701Kg for an F1 car is with the driver, 870Kg for LMP1 is without).

Spa 2014 speed trap data has the LMP1 and F1 cars going at a similar speed through the traps (only a couple of km/h difference), so almost all of the difference is seemingly in cornering, which isn't what I would have expected, to be honest!

Spa 2015 F1 P1 time was 1:47.197. P20 was 1:53.099. So the LMP1 car's fastest lap wouldn't have got anywhere near the grid. The 107% time would have been 1:54.701, so the fastest LMP1 car would have had to appeal to the stewards to take part...

During the race, I suspect that the LMP1 cars would initially have a very slight advantage because I think their lap times are much more consistent whereas F1 cars generally tend to get faster and faster as the fuel burns off. After that, I'd expect the LMP1 cars to be at least a lap down by the end of the race.

Back in 1986, it is supposed that Toivonen would have been able to put his Lancia Delta S4 rally car in the top 10 for that year's F1 race around Estoril (based on his performance at a private test that year in prep for it being used as a stage in 1987). Many people crave the late-80s turbo-era F1, but was that the pinnacle when Group B rally cars could have competed much more closely than current LMP1 cars could today?

I suppose you have to ask yourself what sort of gap is "acceptable" and why those gaps exist. F1 cars definitely could be going enormously faster if the teams had limitless budgets, were allowed crazy aero (Lotus Type 79, Brabham BT46B etc), mile-wide super-sticky tyres, traction control, second brake pedals, no lower limits on weight, no limits on fuel efficiency etc etc but the sport would be unwatchable - nobody would be able to pass or even follow anyone because of the aerodynamics, it would basically be a case of whoever had the most money would win and keep on winning once they were in front. At least now, changes/reinterpretations of the regulations allow innovation to mix things up a little bit and the races are at least within touching distance of competitive in the dry, and genuinely exciting to watch in changeable or wet conditions.

It seems to me that what the sport needs is to actually be slower, not faster! Less mechanical grip seems to do a fabulous job of spicing up the racing. At the same time, that's at odds with the whole "pinnacle of motorsport" thing. Basically, I think we've reached the point at which the technology to go very much faster exists, but it isn't desirable to do so for sporting reasons or financial reasons, or both.
 
You have to remember when you compare them, LMP cars can be driven flat out for 24 hours of racing and don't have tyres that go off after a few laps or have a narrow operating window. There are too many differences for a fair comparison with race pace, but qualifying can be compared with having similar fuel loads, etc.

The fact they're coming close - yes, close to the rear of the F1 grid - in performance between the categories just shows that these cars are brilliantly engineered. :)
 
You have to remember when you compare them, LMP cars can be driven flat out for 24 hours of racing and don't have tyres that go off after a few laps or have a narrow operating window. There are too many differences for a fair comparison with race pace, but qualifying can be compared with having similar fuel loads, etc.

The fact they're coming close - yes, close to the rear of the F1 grid - in performance between the categories just shows that these cars are brilliantly engineered. :)

There is no doubt they are brilliantly engineered but they seem to have more money and they are allowed far greater technical freedom than is allowed in F1, although they are engineered towards a different goal than F1 and are constrained in different ways.

I don't agree that the relative performance of LMP1 is a valid route to level criticism at F1, that's all.
 
Given the weight difference and the fact the LMP1 cars have to run for six hours and 24 at Le Mans, it makes a total mockery of the current generation of F1 cars and the whole "pinnacle of motorsport" rubbish. F1 cars should be an order of magnitude faster than this.

Yes the LMP1 cars have to run for 6 hours and 24 hours respectively at a time, but don't forget F1 cars engines have to last 4 races now. Total run time over 2015 for 4 races is 6 hours, ignoring any P1 P2 P3 and qualifying that they do.

7 seconds faster on lap time in qualifying trim is a lot of time when you consider the LMP1 cars are being shoved around by bigger more powerful engines.

Do the comparison again using GP2 cars:

Silverstone
GP2 car: 1:39.949
LMP1 car: 1:39.721


Spa
GP2 car: 1:56.278
LMP1 car: 1:54.767

Those LMP1 cars don't look all that impressive now when compared against cars they have a big power and aero advantage over...

LMP1 to F1 comparisons are inherently pointless. Both sports series are very different, work to different regulations, run on different tyres, and at different times of the year.
 
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