Red Bull to quit F1?

Skeeter said:
Hang on a minute! Aren't most of the other threads full of people saying F1 needs more teams, that there aren't enough cars, we need more competitive teams etc, etc, etc. Yet here we have the owner of 2 teams threatening to leave and the response seems to be "oh well, bye then".

Bit of a conflict, tis it not? :p. Regardless of if you like them, less teams in F1 is bad.
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Too true, there aren't many companies that would be willing to step in and fund an F1 team(s) to the degree RB have with their junior driver program and lower formula sponsors.
 
Janesy B said:
Doesn't mean the sport has to shift just to appease them.
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Ferrari say Hi!

Red Bull won't get their way. The reason we hear Horner moan so much is because he has to come up with new things to suggest every week as his ideas are constantly quashed. Isn't it about time he came up with yet another alternaitve engine format suggestion? :p
 
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Lol...

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/06/christian-horner-red-bull-f1

Red Bull have often been likened to the fashion brand Benetton, who raced in Formula One between 1986 and 2001. Without having any tradition in the sport they landed two drivers' and one constructors' world championships before quitting.

But Horner says: "Benetton ran out of steam. They didn't have the attraction to be able to retain Michael [Schumacher] at that time. Red Bull has the same DNA as Benetton in many respects, but we've grown with it. The outlook for the future looks extremely positive."
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So RB win multiple titles, lose their German ace to Ferrari, then...
 
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Milkybk said:
People spent the entire 4 years RBR dominated for complaining like petulant children. Every team complained about their aero advantages and EVERY single year the FIA introduced rules to reduce the aforementioned advantage. Now that another team is winning and RBR are raising concerns people still beat them down, yet later in the season you'll all be moaning that the season was over to soon and wasn't competitive enough.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; it's so patently obvious that people hold a misplaced hatred for RBR just because they were successful without having any heritage in the sport.
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No, I hate Red Bull because they spent four years cheating their way to victory and told everyone else to shut up but the second they are the ones sucking hind tit they start complaining and demanding change. Vettel was the perfect driver for them - he's also a complete baby who is arrogant in victory and pathetic when he can't get what he wants.

Oh, and I also hate Red Bull because they sell toxic sludge.
 
The only issue I have with Horner directly is he's a complete hypocrite, without the previous complaining about others not liking an unfair advantage, on it's own he's not wrong to complain in general.

Renault have done a terrible job, though I suspect that Renault brought an engine to the first race that was likely a little different spec to the ones in testing which would bring about more difficulty in getting engine maps correct. Their winter testing maps didnt' work as they did in testing because the engine changed. Maps also change based on the track and Renault likely haven't had time to optimise for the engine nor apply that on a per track basis. Renault did a dire job AND to some degree F1 has always been about eventually nullifying huge advantages for the sake of competition. I have no problem with that suggestion being made, it's just a little hard to take from Horner is all.

Also Merc could be cheating, we don't know, they could be cheating the living hell out of the sport inside the engine just not in aero that we can see. RBR cheated with dodgy engine modes and upgrades in performance called reliability upgrades, saying they had to have a blown exhaust for reliability iirc, flexible wings that 100% broke the intention of the rules but the test simply didn't catch them for a long time.

If a team who weren't so clearly cheating for the past 4 years were asking for some way of levelling the playing field it would be easier to stomach than from Horner/RBR.

I'd like to see TR if they had a competitive engine as well. I like F1 for the technology, it's always been part of it. Someone makes an epic piece of engineering(within the rules) and people struggle for a while, either match them or we use regulations to change specs so everyone has a chance to catch up as everyone has to make the same changes to be compliant with the new rules. I'm for that, maybe end of this year, maybe end of next year.

As I said in the other thread, ultimately regulations can't account for people who do a woeful engineering job. But with only two teams who make their own engine although you could call that three now, that leaves 7 teams reliant on buying an engine that isn't awful.

What I don't get is, for me F1 has never been a close formula, it's a technology series that every 5-6 years gets new regulations, somewhat gives everyone a common starting point and whoever does the best engineering probably dominates(or has a good chance to) for a while. Then people do the best racing they can, be that for 1st, 5th or 18th. Personally I've never cared about the position of the cars I'm watching racing, just that the racing is fun to watch. Last year we had some racing upfront, lots around Ferrari/RBR, that's fine by me. Effectively F1 is two races, technology race for titles and individual battles in races. I have no idea why people freak out when you're watching good action but it's 4th vs 5th rather than 1st vs 2nd.
 
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To all those saying RBR cheated, what rules did they actally break while winning WCCs?

The only time I can remember them breaking a rule was with the fuel flow on Ricciardos car last year?
 
Their front wing was deemed illegal at Abu Dhabi last year.

They've just always skirted the line of legality very finely.
 
I found this article yesterday. It's Horner talking about Red Bull's domination over the past few seasons.

Horner doesn't feel any guilt though and says they're just trying to do their best in a competitive environment - it just so happens that their best is better than the rest.

"We compete in a championship to the same regulations as all the others," he said. "We do the best job that we can and then we measure ourselves against our opponents every couple of weeks.

"It is not down to us to help the others to succeed. Our focus is very much on ourselves. We don't feel in any way bad about the fact that we have done a lot of winning."

He says any sport has natural phases of domination and it will ultimately swing in someone else's favour at some point.

"In sport, whether it is Roger Federer, or Ferrari or Williams or McLaren, you get phases of sportsmen and teams being dominant.

"At some point that does come to an end. Then you have to regroup and you have to go again.
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His tune has changed...
 
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Rybo89 said:
Red bull just angry that merc found a legitimate way of winning ;)
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I'm 99.9999% sure they have a few illegitimate ones as well but I'm sure they want to gloss over that and still fixate on unproven areas of another car. Clever interpretation of the rules and running them to the limits and just beyond have been a part of F1 as long a I can remember.

I'm sure peoples view on the red bull wing would be completely different on here had Lewis been driving the car. I was sure they were cheating, but they cleverly managed to clear all the tests. Time to move on.
 
robbiemc said:
Flexible front wings, no?
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There is no rule saying "no flexible wings".

Shimmy said:
Their front wing was deemed illegal at Abu Dhabi last year.

They've just always skirted the line of legality very finely.
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They never cheated though, they replaced the wing before competing.

Flibster said:
Off the top of my head.

Holes in the floor
Holes in the front axle
Flexing t-tray support
Flexing wings
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Did they break any rules and get penalized for any of those?
 
this_is_gav said:
It's not cheating if they pass all of the tests.
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It's extra clever if you find a way of passing the tests but still breaking the rules.

Supposedly one of the reasons Newey left Mclaren was because they wanted to stick to the rules (especially after Spygate), and Red Bull were happy to push all the grey areas to the limit - right until RB got told to change whatever iffy thing they put on the car by the scrutineers.

Personally, if RB wants to leave, then let them. They are only there to sell fizzy drinks, and if they want to cry because someone else is creaming the competition just as they did, then they won't be missed. The drinks company will just sell Toro Rosso to Renault, and RB to Audi and good riddance.

All Horner's whining is just politicking because RB are in trouble, and in the end the team is just a rich man's advertising plaything who will dump it as soon as he gets bored of them no longer being on the podium.
 
Steampunk said:
It's extra clever if you find a way of passing the tests but still breaking the rules.
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The tests and the rules are the same thing. Poor reporting has made people think otherwise, but its not the case.

The rules state the wing must be rigidly attached to the car, and then defines a maximum amount of flex at a number of points under specific loads.

That's it. There is no "the wings must not flex" blanket rule.

The word "cheat" is used far to liberally. RBR never cheated (within the technical regs) while winning WCCs, as cheating would see them penalised or disqualified, like in Australia last year. I can't remember them being disqualified on technical grounds from qualifying or the race at all between 2010 and 2013?
 
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