RIP Windows Phone

Soldato
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Half of choosing a good Android phone, is picking a manufacturer who will maintain it.

I guess that's kind of an inherent problem in the way that Android is distributed. Once manufacturers have sold you a product there's no revenue stream coming their way once the phone they're selling is replaced by an updated version (which tends to be every 18-24 months) so more often you're left with a phone that simply won't receive any more OS updates. Not so much an issue with the more expensive phones and Google own Nexus range but it leads to a lot of very outdated budget phones out there.

Apple may charge you stupidly high prices for their phones but at least if you choose to spend silly money on a phone it'll be supported for the next 4 years pretty much guaranteed.

Speaking of which that's another area where MS really dropped the ball as they sold you stupidly expensive handsets and still typically dropped support for them a few years later despite a relatively small product range which they needed to support. Now MS is in the position that nobody is willing to buy a high-end WP handset as they can't be sure it will receive updates a couple of years down the line and now it looks unlikely it may even exist in the near future.

And this is coming from someone who used Windows Moble 5.0/6.0 back in the day, switched to IOS when the 3g came out and has recently moved to Anrdoid on a Google Nexus5.

I'd happily switch back to IOS in the future if Apple release a new iphone I like the look of but there's no way I'd ever contemplate WP at this point in time. I think Google/Apple have pretty much cemented their duopoly in the phone market at this point in time and I don't really think there's space for another player in the market right now. If one of them drops the ball in a big way perhaps but there's no sign of that happening anytime soon from what I can tell.

My 2pth for what it's worth. Pick your poison....
 
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Associate
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Just a small point, people saying Android is not so good on this page have based this a Xiami Note 3 and a Moto G 2nd Gen. Tbh, if I have to base it on just those two, I'd not be so impressed either.

That's not even about price. A Moto G 1st or 3rd Gen and you probably have a different opinion, or a Vodafone Smart Ultra 6 perhaps.

Even though I'm using the moto g, I prefer the overall experience, I know that the limitations I am experiencing now on android are hardware based, however this isn't such a big issue on WP.
Tempted with the ultra 6, but want to try the public release of Windows 10 before spending more on a phone.
 
Soldato
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OK - so the articles about millions of Android phones currently in service with security vulnerabilities are true then. Better pick a good manufacturer as you say. My 1st Gen Moto-G was a good choice with Motorola being owned by Google, but that is no longer the case. I guess Lollipop 5.1 is the last OS version I'll see for that, which is fair enough and no big deal, but the question is whether any further security updates will come. I guess antivirus product can fill that gap to some extent, I have CM Antivirus on it.

Similarly though, there must be a significant percentage of windows phones out there that aren't getting updates, latest software - the problem is you won't get articles about millions of out of date phones because there are barely millions in total and so nobody really cares enough to make articles about it.

iOS is probably similar but with the advantage that a significant portion of the user base is so image conscious they couldn't possibly be seen with an old iPhone, so the hardware in circulation is often more up to date :p (along with a few other more sensible reasons, like apps falling out of compatibility etc.)
 
Soldato
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With Windows Mobile 10, I think you can be guaranteed security updates for years to come, as with iOS. Even Windows Phone 8.1 will probably get updates for quite a bit longer. It looks like Android is the worst bet in this regard.
 
Soldato
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With Windows Mobile 10, I think you can be guaranteed security updates for years to come, as with iOS. Even Windows Phone 8.1 will probably get updates for quite a bit longer. It looks like Android is the worst bet in this regard.

I don't think that's in question really, but I wouldn't buy a WP now feeling hugely confident of it's long term support either.
 
Soldato
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I wouldn't buy a WP now feeling hugely confident of it's long term support either.

I'm not so sure - I think Windows 10 Mobile is a game-changer and you can be more confident than ever before. But time will tell I guess, we are all just crystal ball gazing and we just don't know.
 
Soldato
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I'm not so sure - I think Windows 10 Mobile is a game-changer and you can be more confident than ever before. But time will tell I guess, we are all just crystal ball gazing and we just don't know.

People were saying the same about WP8, it hardly set the world on fire though really.
 
Caporegime
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Surely the support for WP (10 or otherwise) going forward is also dependant on the manufacturers? Anything not a Lumia device could just as easily be abandoned.

Apple, for all their faults, do have a long term support model. iOS9 is available all the way back to the 4S, which was released late 2011. The Nexus 4 from late 2012 got its last major release of Android (L) a the end of 2014. Anything beyond 2 years is rare on Android.

I don't know what WP is like? I know I had a HTC 8S that was released with 8 at the start of 2013 and never got 8.1 that came out 18 months later.
 
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Mobster
Soldato
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On the other hand though, the 4s runs iOS 9 like absolute ****. It basically destroyed that phone.

I have one still on iOS 7 and it is actually still a decent phone. The other one I have - on iOS 9 - is just terrible to use.

At least with Android (and possibly WP?) you can downgrade the software or tweak it to make it run better.
 
Soldato
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With the windows insider program you can bypass the operator for updates. Getting them direct from MS. Its like a better Nexus. It's one of the main features that attracted me to WP8x.

The HTC 8s had a hardware limitation in that it only had a 4gb internal memory. Considering 8gb is not really enough for the later versions of Android. Afaik the 8s did eventually get 8.1.

I've had and have a lot of Android devices that got no updates or just one before being abandoned. Hunting around for roms and nodded roms to keep up-to-date I found a PITA. Samsung is especially bad for this on mid-low devices.

To give IOS credit it does generally have the longest supported devices
 
Soldato
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On the other hand though, the 4s runs iOS 9 like absolute ****. It basically destroyed that phone.

I have one still on iOS 7 and it is actually still a decent phone. The other one I have - on iOS 9 - is just terrible to use.

At least with Android (and possibly WP?) you can downgrade the software or tweak it to make it run better.

We've a iphone 4 here that still ruins ok. Probably because its on the earlier OS. Some apps it can no longer get. But in many ways it's got more features and more apps than my windows 8.1 phones. That is a big fail by Microsoft. I say even some of my Android 2.4 devices are the same. Still more featured and more apps than WP. Only they are crippled by bloat especially of stock apps. Ot makes them useless.
 
Soldato
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On WP you can remove almost all of the non essential apps or bloat. I rarely use more than 3.5gb of the internal disks. Always have 4gb free. Which is the reason older WP still are very fast in use.
 
Caporegime
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With the windows insider program you can bypass the operator for updates. Getting them direct from MS. Its like a better Nexus. It's one of the main features that attracted me to WP8x.

Insider builds can't really be considered a standard practice for most people though. It's also prone to the flaws and bugs that come with pre release software. W10 on my Lumia 620 runs like a dog too. If I was using it every day I'd have gone back to 8.1.
 
Soldato
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None of this comes as any surprise. MS have clearly said they are changing how they do Windows Phones and will move to only making new first party phones where they bring something new to the market. This takes some time and the chief marketing officer said as much on a recent "Windows Weekly", they need to do something premium like Surface. The 950/950XL are the last mid to high end Lumias and would have been planned for months before anything changes.

The side effect is with Microsoft not flooding the market with Lumia is there is room for other OEMs to now produce a handset which capture significant market share.

Lastly Windows 10 has only just launched with the Windows 10 mobile version still not quite ready for a proper RTM release so unsurprisingly there's not many new devices at the moment.

With the iOS bridge in Visual Studio allowing iOS Apps to be taken across to Windows 10 with minimal time and fuss I expect the App situation to have tangible improved by the middle of the year as app developers realise they can take existing iOS apps across to Windows 10 universal apps where the potential market is all Windows devices, not just mobile. Ease of cross platform release plus size of potential market starts to make things more interesting for app devs, particularly if it potentially opens up Xbox as a target platform as well. Getting your app on TV, Phone, Laptop and Tablet makes a tempting target, far more so than just having to dev for Windows Phone 8, in particular if it's easy to port your existing iOS or Android app over.

MS would have expected to take a market share hit as they change the OS and devices. Things are starting to change though continuum has made things interesting for business (and WP already has 30% business market share in the UK), good quality W10 universal apps and quality OEMs getting involved (Samsung have just decided to release the Galaxy Pro W10 based tablet after having pretty much abandoned W8) make WP more interesting to mobile operators and consumers, all that's missing is a "proper" premium flagship device with some real innovation (rather than the current "oh here, have another couple of Proc cores).

They've got a battle ahead but if everything lines up I'd say W10 Phones are far from dead...
 
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Soldato
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I think Windows Mobile 10 may be a problem on older 512MB RAM phones like my old 625. That runs very nicely on 8.1 and I may never upgrade it. No need really because it does very little if anything these days. Might press it into service as a permanent satnav.

I bought a 550 for a friend with Windows 10 on it, and that is a cracking little phone for the money. That phone has 1GB RAM though.
 
Soldato
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With the iOS bridge in Visual Studio allowing iOS Apps to be taken across to Windows 10 with minimal time and fuss I expect the App situation to have turned around by the middle of the year as app developers realise they can take existing iOS apps across to Windows 10 universal apps where the potential market is all Windows devices, not just mobile. Ease of cross platform release plus size of potential market starts to make things more interesting for app devs.

(underline added)

Very interesting, I hope that happens !
 
Soldato
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Thanks. I do believe Windows 10 is a game-changer with universal apps and tools like that. Many people don't even consider Windows phone currently because of the apps situation. If that situation changes, Windows phone could take off in a big way as people begin to appreciate it.
 
Soldato
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Insider builds can't really be considered a standard practice for most people though. It's also prone to the flaws and bugs that come with pre release software. W10 on my Lumia 620 runs like a dog too. If I was using it every day I'd have gone back to 8.1.


Rooting and loading ROMs on Android is vastly more complex. Also not official either. We were able to do the insider builds with the WP8 & WP8.1 builds. Worked really well vastly simpler, and direct from MS.

WP10 just isn't optimised yet for the very low spec phones. As others have said I don't think it will work well on a 512mb phone. TBH I think 8.1 works much better on 1MB phone too. The 620 is a 4yr old and it was the low end phone at the time.

How about Android 5 or 6 on a 4yr old low end Android phone?
 
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