Road Cycling

Vonhelmet · 10 Jun 2016 at 11:12

That red and black canyon looks awesome. Red and black is always best.

madindehead · 10 Jun 2016 at 11:41

Thomas. PLease. said:
Aeroad disc, why oh why.

SDK^ said:
Why not ?!?!

Thomas doesn't like the idea of discs on road bikes if I remember correctly. From a previous discussion when the UCI decided to ban them.

Surely the whole point of discs isn't the power (we all know that more power isn't what's required), but better modulation and better poor weather performance. I guess they also help amateurs descend safer (especially with carbon rims!)

SoliD said:
Any bike fit tool is only as good as the fitter, and any good fitter will only just the tool as a basis but tailor depending upon the riders condition. But will use the tool to ensure accurate measuring of exact final position so it can be mapped/changed easier in the future.

jpaul said:
Just re-found gadget show (22Apr@30") article on Retul bike fit and custom build from this
I had assumed that part of the system would be looking at optimising power output but slow-moing through article showed it was purely geometry, was this doing the system an injustice ? yes it does not address aerodynamics, but nonetheless.
[ comments back down thread suggest it is overpriced(retul) so will ultimately consider some of alternatives back down thread. ]

I would like a better bikefit, since I can feel difference of comfort/ergonomics and power output across bikes I have.
However it seems some of the places offering retul use your bike and others have different versions of an adjustable bike (one shown back down thread); an adjustable bike where you can import the settings (saddle/bb/stem/crank-length) back to your own bike sounds the best option to me but maybe that is unrealistic given different geometries.
[/I]

Like SoliD says, the fit can only be as good as the experience/knowledge of the fitter.

I know that the Specialized BG fit can use the Retul rig, or your own bike. My own bike is what I want to be fitted to: I'm comfortable with the size, I just want to ensure that things like saddle/bar height as optimal.

I will either go with Specialized BG fit on my own bike, or the Stow's fit. Both seem to use your bike as the basis more than a rig. Since I can't change my frame, the rig seems to make less sense.

SDK^ · 10 Jun 2016 at 12:18

madindehead said:
Thomas doesn't like the idea of discs on road bikes if I remember correctly. From a previous discussion when the UCI decided to ban them.

I guess people don't like change.
Similar to the people who just refuse to switch to digital format photography because film is better

platypus · 10 Jun 2016 at 12:26

Does anyone fancy a double occupancy http://pages.rapha.cc/travel/cent-cols-challenge/northern-alps-cent-cols-challenge?

Makes it a bit cheaper. I'm considering it for next year or the year after, subject to approval from the revenue protection officer.

madindehead · 10 Jun 2016 at 12:58

platypus said:
Does anyone fancy a double occupancy http://pages.rapha.cc/travel/cent-cols-challenge/northern-alps-cent-cols-challenge?

Makes it a bit cheaper. I'm considering it for next year or the year after, subject to approval from the revenue protection officer.

Damn, that looks like fun!

The full length LBL challenge would be a good test for those rides (1 day) (longer distance, and less steep climbs, but similar total amount of climbing).

Jonny ///M · 10 Jun 2016 at 13:05

Roady said:
Good effort! Hardly surprising he sailed past you - https://www.strava.com/activities/603923336/segments/14720016207 he put in an almost top10 time @ 35mph avg! Machine!

But but but I averaged 33mph

Went out with the bundy, small group out and made clear my hiding intentions. Ended up second wheel to a guy putting in 21 minute tens, maybe less, so I was sitting in the 53/12 shifting a bit. Got told off by the guy who 'owns' the run. Cannae wit there if you're no gone through. It's his baw and you're no allowed it.

I wasn't going to the front to blow up at Hazel bank, did blow as I went through later on and pushed a bit too hard to make a point.

Actually love this f75. Helps it's got £500 wheels on it.

Roady · 10 Jun 2016 at 13:24

SDK^ said:
I guess people don't like change.

I think the main point Thomas made before is quite valid - in the vast majority of racing there is no requirement for discs. The vast majority of races/crits are mostly flat (or have no steep/prolonged descents that discs excel at) and usually not held in winter weather or during torrential rain...

I can agree with his points, but equally I don't agree with discs being excluded. At the very least discs should be used more in amateur racing as a 'test' for the UCI to base their decisions on. It might have avoided some of the knee-jerk type decisions they've already made and the exclusion of discs from some of their related sportives is totally stupid.

Vonhelmet said:
That red and black canyon looks awesome. Red and black is always best.

Yup! Have to say I'm a Red/Black convert. Part of that conversion came from the NFTO team colours. I still really like Blue/White/Black but most of the kit I'm buying now tends to be Red/Black.

platypus said:
Does anyone fancy a double occupancy http://pages.rapha.cc/travel/cent-cols-challenge/northern-alps-cent-cols-challenge?

Makes it a bit cheaper. I'm considering it for next year or the year after, subject to approval from the revenue protection officer.

That's a crazy price! :eek:

I know the guys from here who went over (Eurostar) paid £200 each for 8 or 9 nights, admittedly that was probably self catering without support vehicles and without guides. But I wouldn't imagine they totally slummed it... Hell, pay me £1500 and I'll come follow you in my fiesta for a week, with flapjacks.

I might have the opportunity of a place between Malaga and Marbella (I think). Lady from my girlfriends place has bought a place over there and says she'd rent it out for ~£150 a week to cover maintenance costs... Hope it's nearer Marbella as there's more hills there! It'll be up for rent to anyone I guess but no idea on the rates, yet. Will keep things posted here when we go and explore

madindehead · 10 Jun 2016 at 13:42

Roady said:
I think the main point Thomas made before is quite valid - in the vast majority of racing there is no requirement for discs. The vast majority of races/crits are mostly flat (or have no steep/prolonged descents that discs excel at) and usually not held in winter weather or during torrential rain...

I can agree with his points, but equally I don't agree with discs being excluded. At the very least discs should be used more in amateur racing as a 'test' for the UCI to base their decisions on. It might have avoided some of the knee-jerk type decisions they've already made and the exclusion of discs from some of their related sportives is totally stupid.

If we exclude racing for the time being: How much better is a set of discs vs Dura-Ace/Ultegra level brakes with good pads (recommend me some?), especially in the wet? Modulation and stopping time?

My main reason for wanting discs would be on long descents in high mountains: Granted, I won't be going there very often, but I feel like it would make me a lot happier, knowing that I won't cause a tyre issue from braking. Rims brakes + heat in the Alps/Dolomites + braking doesn't sound like fun to me.

kiteloopy · 10 Jun 2016 at 14:01

Just seen BMC Roadmachine (Disc) has just been announced.

Love the frame, hate the colour.

uv · 10 Jun 2016 at 14:11

madindehead said:
If we exclude racing for the time being: How much better is a set of discs vs Dura-Ace/Ultegra level brakes with good pads (recommend me some?), especially in the wet? Modulation and stopping time?

I can't speak for high-end rim brakes as I only used fairly cheap ones before moving to discs years ago, but the difference between high-end discs (Shimano hydraulic) and anything else I've ever ridden on is just night and day. Not just in terms of actual stopping power, but in terms of the effort required.

I can stop my bike with a single finger on most descents, and even on the steepest of descents I've never had to hanker on from the drops.

SoliD · 10 Jun 2016 at 14:18

Think it's the fact it's an aeroad which is designed to be aerodynamic and super fast and then chucking on extra weight and less aerodynamic equipment. Like wearing a Specialized S Works Evade helmet whilst riding a hybrid at 12-13 mph (I may have seen this yesterday on my commute home from work)

Lethal` · 10 Jun 2016 at 14:21

Lethal` said:
Bike shop emailed last night to say they managed to fix the shifter but barrel adjuster missing. Pretty sure I had it in the small bag attached to frame before I went to initial bike shop. Didn't realise it was no longer there when I picked it up. They asked if I've got it still otherwise they will try to sort it. Apparently it took their mechanic a few hours to fix the shifter and they're not sure what the other bike shop did. I'll find out what the damage to the wallet is when I go pick it up this afternoon.. Hopefully not more than the price of a shifter!

Back from bike shop. £55 all in so pretty happy with that as long as it lasts (£40 labour and £15 or so for cables and a barrel adjuster).

On discs... I'm quite liking the look of that Focus Paralane that was just announced.

Roady · 10 Jun 2016 at 14:37

Jonny ///M said:
But but but I averaged 33mph

Keep pushing!

Naaah, I wasn't dishing your ride mate, your speed was pretty impressive, just his even more so! Then again consider he used you as his lead out man...

madindehead said:
If we exclude racing for the time being: How much better is a set of discs vs Dura-Ace/Ultegra level brakes with good pads (recommend me some?), especially in the wet? Modulation and stopping time?

My main reason for wanting discs would be on long descents in high mountains:

All of the above really mate! Think you pretty much covered it all... In ideal braking conditions (dry weather on the flat) then I wouldn't imagine there is much difference. The modulation is actually quite good on my 5800's and I imagine 6800/9000 is even better, it's just the extremes of use/conditions where the difference becomes large enough to warrant the additional cost/choice/purchasing decision.

Roady said:
Unrelated, anyone use a site/brand of recovery whey protein powder which'll work out cheaper than 70p a serving? (Currently Powerbar and High5 work out like this from Wiggle)

Anyone with any more input on this?

Benny was kind enough to send me links/referrals to MyProtein, ProteinWorks & BulkPowders (thanks mate, wasn't being ignorant in not replying to your mail, just not had much time to look!) but now I'm utterly confused about what I should be buying... I have little knowledge about what my body needs for recovery purposes and my previous choices have always been from Wiggle/CRC and High5/Powerbar 'Recovery' branded Whey powders.

Is a Whey Isolate what I'm 'best' using for an easy recovery? I've only really found a 'deal' cheaper than Powerbar (which is around ~70-80p a serving) with this, but I'll admit I've not looked at all of them (far too many which is adding to my confusion!)

lordrobs · 10 Jun 2016 at 14:57

My opinion on discs has changed slightly since I started defaulting to the drops on any decent descent. Plenty of stopping power when tugging on the bottom of the levers and I never use more than two fingers to brake. This is with Sora levers and Tektro long drop calipers which aren't known for being the pinnacle of braking technology

When a car leaps out in front of me in town though and I'm on the hoods I feel like I have to squeeze those levers pretty damn hard to slow up.

For my summer ride I'm happy enough with rim brakes TBH.

madindehead · 10 Jun 2016 at 15:02

uv said:
I can't speak for high-end rim brakes as I only used fairly cheap ones before moving to discs years ago, but the difference between high-end discs (Shimano hydraulic) and anything else I've ever ridden on is just night and day. Not just in terms of actual stopping power, but in terms of the effort required.

I can stop my bike with a single finger on most descents, and even on the steepest of descents I've never had to hanker on from the drops.

What disc bike are you riding currently?

SoliD said:
Think it's the fact it's an aeroad which is designed to be aerodynamic and super fast and then chucking on extra weight and less aerodynamic equipment. Like wearing a Specialized S Works Evade helmet whilst riding a hybrid at 12-13 mph (I may have seen this yesterday on my commute home from work)

Canyon's info about the new disc-equipped Endurance:

Interestingly, Canyon says that disc brakes pose only a relatively minor aerodynamic disadvantage compared to rim brakes.

“When tested back to back in the wind tunnel, only 3.3 W separated our Ultimate CF SLX Disc Prototype (219.4 W) from the standard Ultimate CF SLX (216.1 W) at 45 km/h,” says Canyon. “The difference stems from the disc brakes themselves, yet more importantly from disc-specific wheelsets that require triple-laced spokes and larger hub bodies to accommodate through axles.

“The Endurace CF SLX (221.2W) tested with our new H31 Ergocockpit gives away a marginal 1.4 W to the Ultimate CF SLX Disc Prototype fitted with our H36 Aerocockpit. Any extra drag can be attributed to the higher stack featured on the Endurace CF SLX as well as our S15 VCLS 2.0 seatpost and the H31 Ergocockpit’s slightly less aerodynamic form.”

It would be easier to understand if they presented it as time saved rather than watts, but if you want to save 3 watts, you could probably go for a **** beforehand to make yourself lighter.

Roady said:
All of the above really mate! Think you pretty much covered it all... In ideal braking conditions (dry weather on the flat) then I wouldn't imagine there is much difference. The modulation is actually quite good on my 5800's and I imagine 6800/9000 is even better, it's just the extremes of use/conditions where the difference becomes large enough to warrant the additional cost/choice/purchasing decision.

Anyone with any more input on this?

Benny was kind enough to send me links/referrals to MyProtein, ProteinWorks & BulkPowders (thanks mate, wasn't being ignorant in not replying to your mail, just not had much time to look!) but now I'm utterly confused about what I should be buying... I have little knowledge about what my body needs for recovery purposes and my previous choices have always been from Wiggle/CRC and High5/Powerbar 'Recovery' branded Whey powders.

Is a Whey Isolate what I'm 'best' using for an easy recovery? I've only really found a 'deal' cheaper than Powerbar (which is around ~70-80p a serving) with this, but I'll admit I've not looked at all of them (far too many which is adding to my confusion!)

I think you just want whey isolate. I've been using the Protein Works Whey Protein 80 Concentrate (http://www.theproteinworks.com/whey-protein-80-concentrate). It's cheap, it works well. I get unflavoured, and then use Nesquick powder. It tastes damn good like that! With 20% off, it's about 32p a serving. Possibly less if you buy a bigger bag. Most of the other "special" whey powders tend to be less fat (and therefore more protein) per serving. But that doesn't matter a huge amount. You pay a premium for the "diet" variety.

I think I'll pickup some new calipers (currently on 105 5800) and some new pads. And look at actually sitting with my hands in the drops on descents. I'm still a bit uncomfortable doing that. Just my point about rim heat on long descents still stands, but each to their own

Raptor · 10 Jun 2016 at 15:37

So the new bike is all good, I'm not liking the 23c tyres though.

Anyone have opinions on either 25c or 28c and tyres to go for, I used to use Gatorskins, but fancy something different this time.

Trek said 28 will fit the Emonda.

Lethal` · 10 Jun 2016 at 15:39

madindehead said:
I think I'll pickup some new calipers (currently on 105 5800) and some new pads. And look at actually sitting with my hands in the drops on descents. I'm still a bit uncomfortable doing that. Just my point about rim heat on long descents still stands, but each to their own

Though I'm still not great at it I found it helped a lot to adjust the lever reach on the brakes. It was pretty far to reach before I brought them in.

Raptor said:
So the new bike is all good, I'm not liking the 23c tyres though.

Anyone have opinions on either 25c or 28c and tyres to go for, I used to use Gatorskins, but fancy something different this time.

Trek said 28 will fit the Emonda.

I quite like my Continental GP4000 SIIs 25c. You can get them for about £60 for a pair.

madindehead · 10 Jun 2016 at 16:00

Lethal` said:
Though I'm still not great at it I found it helped a lot to adjust the lever reach on the brakes. It was pretty far to reach before I brought them in.

I quite like my Continental GP4000 SIIs 25c. You can get them for about £60 for a pair.

Do I just twiddle one of the screws in the lever?

I bought some GP 4 Seasons (roads here are terrible). 25c and they are lovely. But I hear that the GP4000 SIIs that Lethal has are lovely too.

PermaBanned · 10 Jun 2016 at 16:01

Depends on your budget really. You can get 28c Rubino Pros for about £17 a pop.

Lethal` · 10 Jun 2016 at 16:20

madindehead said:
Do I just twiddle one of the screws in the lever?

I bought some GP 4 Seasons (roads here are terrible). 25c and they are lovely. But I hear that the GP4000 SIIs that Lethal has are lovely too.

Pretty much - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GESGpwNLuTQ

I actually need to take mine in a little further but I couldn't be bothered to go further at the time as it would have meant some brake pad distance adjustment as well.