Road Cycling

alexisonfire · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:34

SoliD said:
Stage 18 at this year’s Tour de France features three category-two climbs and one hors catégorie ascent over 186km in the Alps. On these climbs alone SiS expects its riders to consume six electrolyte drinks, three energy bars, two isotonic gels and a caffeine gel; more if the heat ramps up.

I would be on the toilet for days after that lot!

SoliD · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:35

alexisonfire said:
I would be on the toilet for days after that lot!

As would most, whenever I go away for a week training, my body comes back a broken mess from the effort as well as the food consumed.

DanF · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:37

tbh I blame FT for the whole thing, it's his fault I tried a 200 mile food strategy on a 50 mile training ride

edit:
and mucked up the numbers

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:38

SoliD said:
Also this is my favoured approach, but I'm talking 80mile rides plus. Much better to ensure you have some energy at the end than getting into the bonk zone!

Absolutely

I'm perhaps talking about things from a bit of an extreme viewpoint given I'm really talking about 100-200 mile (okay, if I'm honest, usually 100-120) rides and also as someone that might have been on a cut for that entire week, or be planning on riding again the day after, but as soon as you are riding in a way that exhausts your glycogen stores you absolutely can't get away with under-eating. I've bonked far too many times from pushing things too far so I'm confident that I'm right on this one - unless I have an extremely unusual physiology, which I think is unlikely.

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:40

DanF said:
tbh I blame FT for the whole thing, it's his fault I tried a 200 mile food strategy on a 50 mile training ride

Lol

That's a fair point to be honest. Apologies for not being more clear earlier.

That said, I wouldn't go too far the other way either. Try reducing to about 50% of what you did but have extra on hand just in case. If you're fine, reduce further. Don't go from one extreme to the other based on what I or anyone else says.

touch · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:50

DanF said:
tbh I blame FT for the whole thing, it's his fault I tried a 200 mile food strategy on a 50 mile training ride

edit:
and mucked up the numbers

I'm not sure what your route is like for restocking but my strategy for a long ride like that is dictated by location of shops/cafes.
It can be several hours between them up here so you basically need to eat as much as you can at every shop because there's no way you can carry 200 miles worth of food from the start.

slipd · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:56

FrenchTart said:
Check out the GCN videos on setting things up. Also, the Sheldon Brown pages. You'll want to start from scratch as you've already said.

Have you messed with the limit screws?

edit: PB has posted the video links

Thanks both! Yes, I did have a little tinker with the limit screws - with the cable out of the equation though. I think I'm okay here although once I know the alignment is correct I'll be happy. It was definitely too high.

So where should I start then, with the rear mech? I haven't touched anything on there except for the barrel adjuster.

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 21:58

Do the front first. Follow the guides precisely

oli collett · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:19

FrenchTart said:
Indeed, on longer endurance rides taking in enough kcal is exactly the issue.

I actually don't take in what I burn when taking in ~330kcal per 10 miles (to use my particular example). Aside from it being under what I burn in 10 miles, that's a target and realistically it will often be missed. At other times I'll eat more (e.g. around lunch time) too. Over 500kcal per hour is easily hittable in terms of kcal burn for someone of my size travelling at a reasonable pace. At a moving speed of 17-19mph in a city area you'll cover about 15 miles in an hour, which in theory would be a little over the magic 500 mark, discounting any kcal from simply being alive.

Yes, some of your calories burnt will be from fat stores but even if you assume something like 33% you're very much heading into the realms of the extra kcal you gain being used up by you simply living.

As I mentioned above, I'm not talking about an eating strategy for short or medium length rides, or for training for a specific goal. This is how you should eat on long distance endurance rides where the goal is simply to complete the ride and if anything to slightly over-eat as the negative effects from doing so are far less bad than those from failing to provide your body with enough energy.

OK, let's again look at the 330kcal/10 miles and apply it to an ironman. By the end, you would have consumed 3300kcal. Assuming you're a reasonable rider, you're looking at approx 600kcal per hour, during the ironman. Ever heard of anyone recommending that kind of calorie intake to an athlete?

There's a decent summary of the evidence for endurance athletes here:
http://veloclinic.com/evidence-based-sports-nutrition/

The bottom line for carb intake is this:

Take in 30-60 grams (1-1.5 bananas, 1-2 gels, or 1-2 bottles of sports drink) of carbohydrate every hour during events that are greater than 1 hour. This amount represents the upper end of what most athletes can absorb during exercise. Carbohydrates that are not absorbed can lead to abdominal discomfort and diarrhea. Experiment during training to figure out how much carbohydrates intake you can tolerate during exercises. When possible choose real foods over processed options

It is important to realize that your body can not absorb enough carbohydrate to keep up with the demand of moderate to intense exercise. Your intake of carbohydrates simply extends the time you have before you run out

That's around 120-240kcal per hour. This is in line with pretty much everything you'll read on athlete nutrition.

In addition there's no end of articles on here:
http://www.mysportscience.com/

He does suggest you can hit 90g/hour on long duration high intensity exercise:
http://www.mysportscience.com/#!Rec...during-exercise/cjds/5560a4ea0cf23d0164b7313f
And further info here on the 60g/hr limit and how 90g/hr might work:
http://www.mysportscience.com/#!Carb-mixes-and-benefits/cjds/5554db3c0cf2adc1ad322455

So what's going to happen to all that excess food you're putting in? it's going to be sitting in your intestine, which isn't really what you want on a long ride

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:26

You've clearly never done any endurance riding if you're seriously suggesting that even 240kcal (or even half that! :eek:

) per hour is going to get you through the kind of rides I've outlined above.

Please go out and ride 100 miles, taking in only 800 calories and let me know how you find it.

edit: I'm not saying it's impossible for someone highly trained to do this. None of us are tdf riders though...and even if you were to manage it you would be absolutely fried - good luck completing the next 100 miles, especially on the same energy intake.

edit2: Endurance riding and racing are things you seem to be conflating. There are also huge differences between nutrition (for reasons such as likely stomach upset) for running, cycling and swimming.

madindehead · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:26

60g of carbs an hour is the maximum your body can handle away. Like oli says, anymore is going to wreck your stomach. You'll be pretty ill.

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:31

madindehead said:
60g of carbs an hour is the maximum your body can handle away. Like oli says, anymore is going to wreck your stomach. You'll be pretty ill.

It's not as simple as that - you can absorb more than 60g of carbs per hour depending on the mode of delivery/type of carb. Not to mention that the food isn't 100% carbs for the small difference that makes.

I'm fairly certain that myself and the three people I rode with didn't have to stop our 200 mile ride due to stomach distress when eating absolutely tons of food in line with what I've outlined.

madindehead · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:38

Agreed that it's not as simple as that FT. But it's a very good baseline amount. The Torq fitness info has interesting stuff on thisale. 90g of carbs per hour is possible but it has to be the correct mix.

If I was going to eat my usual bars on a ride, 3 provide 60g of carbs. However the combined calorie intake is 495.

Per hour that seems like a much more sensible intake.

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:41

madindehead said:
Agreed that it's not as simple as that FT. But it's a very good baseline amount. The Torq fitness info has interesting stuff on thisale. 90g of carbs per hour is possible but it has to be the correct mix.

If I was going to eat my usual bars on a ride, 3 provide 60g of carbs. However the combined calorie intake is 495.

Per hour that seems like a much more sensible intake.

What kind of length/duration/intensity ride is that?

As I've stated a few times, I'm not recommending eating this much on a 40 mile sprint or meander around country lanes.

edit: Have I misread what you've written? You're saying 495 kcal per hour is a much more sensible one than ~500?

oli collett · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:43

FrenchTart said:
You've clearly never done any endurance riding if you're seriously suggesting that even 240kcal (or even half that! ) per hour is going to get you through the kind of rides I've outlined above.

Please go out and ride 100 miles, taking in only 800 calories and let me know how you find it.

edit: I'm not saying it's impossible for someone highly trained to do this. None of us are tdf riders though...and even if you were to manage it you would be absolutely fried - good luck completing the next 100 miles, especially on the same energy intake.

edit2: Endurance riding and racing are things you seem to be conflating. There are also huge differences between nutrition (for reasons such as likely stomach upset) for running, cycling and swimming.

Why don't you go and read the links i've posted and try and understand?

I went out and rode 160km today and took in around 400kcal up to around 130km, I could have carried on for another 30km but we had a coffee/cake stop. I've done a 220km ride on 2 energy bars, 2 gels and a sausage roll.

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:45

oli collett said:
Why don't you go and read the links i've posted and try and understand?

I went out and rode 160km today and took in around 400kcal up to around 130km, I could have carried on for another 30km but we had a coffee/cake stop. I've done a 220km ride on 2 energy bars, 2 gels and a sausage roll.

I read all the links you've posted - you've cherry-picked the bits that talk about racing and shorter rides and focussed on the claims in those parts.

If you're able to do that more power to you but that's far from your average person.

oli collett · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:50

FrenchTart said:
I read all the links you've posted - you've cherry-picked the bits that talk about racing and shorter rides and focussed on the claims in those parts.

If you're able to do that more power to you but that's far from your average person.

Go and find some studies to support your arguments then - you're the one who's recommending this calorie kind of calorie intake, I'm just pointing out this isn't in line with what nutrition experts recommend.

FrenchTart · 17 Apr 2016 at 22:56

oli collett said:
Go and find some studies to support your arguments then - you're the one who's recommending this calorie kind of calorie intake, I'm just pointing out this isn't in line with what nutrition experts recommend.

I'm off to bed so I'll see if I can dig out something tomorrow whilst avoiding work

Whatever people decide to believe based on this discussion I really hope people go for something in between the two rather than assuming that 120kcal per hour is the way to go. Far better to have too much food, even if you're just carrying it around, than run out.

oli collett · 17 Apr 2016 at 23:09

FrenchTart said:
I'm off to bed so I'll see if I can dig out something tomorrow whilst avoiding work

Whatever people decide to believe based on this discussion I really hope people go for something in between the two rather than assuming that 120kcal per hour is the way to go. Far better to have too much food, even if you're just carrying it around, than run out.

Out of interest, what kind of Jersey do you wear that allows you to carry 6000kcal of food for your 200 mile ride???

lordrobs · 17 Apr 2016 at 23:13

FrenchTart said:
If you've got your profile set up correctly and you're using an HRM then Garmin Connect will be pretty accurate. A PM more accurate still.

My details are all correct on Garmin Connect so it must be the fact that I'm not using a HRM or PM that makes it default to silly figures. Todays ride for example- 26.2 miles, 680ft. Strava estimate = 864 calories (sounds reasonable) Garmin Connect estimate = 1705 calories (sounds LOL worthy)

All this talk of calorie consumption has got me worried about my 100 mile ride in June. Longest I've done so far was 63 miles and I only ate a Jordans Fruslie bar (117 cals) and that was partly because I had time to kill waiting for a gap in traffic at a junction