1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Road Cycling

Discussion in 'Pedal Powered' started by FrenchTart, Jun 29, 2016.

  1. resurgam

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 9, 2003

    Posts: 118

    Location: Birmingham

    I'm just about to put a deposit down for a 5 day ride across the Pyrenees next September (following a similar route to the Raid Pyrenean). Any tips for training for consecutive days of heavy climbing? I'm 6'4" and 80kg so not exactly built for the terrain!

    So far, I'm just planning on getting a lot of miles in plus a few repeats up and down Alpe du Zwift over winter/spring, and then ramp up the length/stress in later spring and summer. Just as background, mileage this year is 3750 or so, 220k feet climbing, and the biggest volume is probably 250 miles over three rides in four days, so I've got a reasonable base to start from.

    I'm not aiming to be particularly rapid, just to be fit enough to enjoy the trip.
     
  2. One More Solo

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2004

    Posts: 15,723

    Location: Manchester

    Standard stuff really, work on sustainable power and doing back to back days. It’s one thing doing a long ride in the mountains but backing it up the next day is hard, so I’d be trying to build up to doing long rides Saturday and Sunday to get used to that.

    My general rule of thumb is you need to be fairly comfortable averaging c3w/kg over multiple climbs unless you’re happy at a sub 70 cadence. Fit a compact chainset and 32t sprocket too, if you’re having a bad day you’ll be grateful of it.
     
  3. resurgam

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 9, 2003

    Posts: 118

    Location: Birmingham

    Cheers, last time I did AdZ I was pretty much on 3 W/kg on a slightly optimistic trainer so that's a good benchmark to work on. Will certainly have a compact and might be paranoid and go 34 as I've got a rear mech that will handle it. Low cadence isn't ideal as I've got slightly dodgy knees.

    Is sweetspot training any use as I did a reasonable amount of that over winter last year, and quite enjoyed riding to target power. It also fits in with the work schedule I have as I can fit in the mediom one after work a couple of times a week.
     
  4. Roady

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,791

    Location: Hereford

    Damn, choose a better brand! ;)

    Yay science! To be fair before reading your solution I was going to say just find a thin 2mm spacer or something... Then just angle your hoods down a tiny amount if the height really bothers you! ;)

    Much opportunity to trim off 5kg? Don't know your physicality but a schedule of a few 2 hour fasted rides and a slight tweak your diet (not a huge change) and you can soon trim. Do it over a long enough period and it'll be 'normal'. You have the time for that. You'll find that'll probably help the most, providing you don't lose power. Current FTP? Do you know your usual yearly peaks/lows and what generally influences them? Big volume/big challenges? Stick to the tried and tested if you can, then just push it a bit further.

    Similar yearly mileage to me, but you've done more elevation so I'm guessing not a commuter (and I would say I've had an easy year). What climbs do you have around and any chance to jump on a train for a jolly out to some 20 minute climbs and then ride home?

    As the others have mentioned, sustained power efforts over multiple days. That's easy with AdZ on tap, but make sure your realism setting is cranked right up. Maybe even do repeats of AdZ if an option? I'm guessing it's around an hour climb for you, so do it over a weekend 3 times one day at a good tempo, then 2 or 3 the next to really get a feel of sustained multiple day efforts. Could then throw in an hour or so the next day after work, or even one on the friday too. Repeatable tempo efforts sustaining enough power to keep your cadence up, several days in a row. It'll hurt, fantastic training and really give you an idea what it's like! :eek:

    Active recovery between these efforts will be your friend too, enough time to sustain similar climbing efforts again and again.

    Do whatever you can to sit & spin! :cool:

    @Jonny ///M @Saytan @SoliD or anyone with hydraulic experience... Changed my caliper over, did a full bleed. Filled system with syringe from bottom up. From what I can tell have all the air out, but lever totally depresses with only around 20% of the expected power. I think the pistons are not moving enough but with the system full of oil I can't figure out what else to do?

    I had a fubar moment when first fitting it - removed the bleed screw and tried to fill it from there not the bleed nipple, so was getting some air in, but can't think how that would've screwed it up? Totally filled it again from bleed nipple.

    Caliper came dry without any oil in it. Any amount of tapping/banging/rotating now isn't producing any air bubbles. Can happily pump 200ml of fluid from bottom into my upper funnel with no air bubbles.

    Going to top it up later after riding it today and just hope it solves itself. Also change my pads as using the old and they may be contaminated a bit, but would still expect them to 'grip' the rotor tighter so it's not just that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  5. SoliD

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 25, 2004

    Posts: 14,845

    Location: Portsmouth

    Mmm, sounds like you've done everything right, friend had this on one of his calipers but no idea how he solved it, will ask him but suspect jonny will respond with tips before I do.
     
  6. Saytan

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 4,504

    try to orient the caliper so that the bleed screw is the highest point on the caliper

    beyond that, good luck. I hate bleeding brakes. Except hope MTB ones, which a chimp could do.
     
  7. Jonny ///M

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004

    Posts: 10,091

    Have you followed the full bleed procedure Roady? You've fitted a new caliper full of air so that's where the problem will be.

    Once you push the fluid up from the caliper to the cup then make sure the fluid is sat at 45 degrees by angling the bike in the stand, undo the bleed nipple to let fluid flow out using gravity.

    Once you feel that's ok then pump the level until you get it firm, hold it firm and open the bleed nipple and close it in quick succession. Repeat a few times.

    English version here page 26 onward.

    https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-BR0008-10-ENG.pdf


    Sounds like you also need this https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/shimano-duraace-str9120-funnel-adapter-oring-y0c698050/ to change from the narrow funnel to the wider lever hole.
     
  8. Roady

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,791

    Location: Hereford

    Yeah, shy of bleeding it again, inverting bike and filling from the lever->up to Caliper I'm unsure what else to try. But then my shimano bleed funnel thingy wouldn't fit as the bleed screw is a different size on the caliper to the shifter... (what a stupid design lol)

    Good point, it's at the bottom, easy to try that with it at the top by unmounting it. Thanks! Will try that when (hopefully) topping it up later for all the air burped by riding it... ;)

    When I've bled before I've always done it the 'wrong' way - top to bottom. But those times I've just been pushing new oil through, not trying to remove a bunch of air from an empty system.

    Why are Hope MTB better? Thinking about it, the videos I watched over the weekend many of the MTB ones you open the reservoir on the lever itself and put oil in rather than using a filling cap/nipple. Is it possible air is sat in my reservoir in the shifter? Any ideas on how to solve it? That's obviously one of the highest points so any amount of bleeding below it, without inverting it, the air isn't going to move...

    Having a read again now to confirm but that's pretty much what I've done, apart from the last bit about opening the bleed nipple in quick succession. On the BR-785 the bleed nipple doesn't undo, theres a bolt above it you unscrew and it's multiple turns to get it loose so probably not able to do very rapid...
     
  9. Jonny ///M

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004

    Posts: 10,091

    Bleed nipple or screw to unlock the nipple should only take around a 1/4 turn to let fluid pass.

    I think I picked you up wrong on the bleed cup, it doesn't fit on the caliper no.

    The reservoir cover on road shifters is side mounted so you can't really remove it and add fluid easily. Having the shifters at the proper angle means the reservoir hole is at the highest point.

    I've found just pressing the lever until it's firm, holding it and opening the nipple, closing nipple, releasing the lever and repeat until you get all of the air out. Used a whole cup of fluid to be sure once.

    Obviously into a bag or bottle or your floor will be soaked.
     
  10. Roady

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,791

    Location: Hereford

    Ok that 'Dealers' guide is loads better and has far more information in it than the other shimano one I'd looked at. I've generally followed a BikeRadar one as it was more pictures as most of them tend to be videos.

    Not many RS-785 specific ones around either. I think that's why originally I'd tried to fill/bleed it by removing the bleed screw...

    Good point about the bleed screw also only needing a little turn. Shimano says 1/8th a turn and I was probably doing 3-4 full turns. Possible loosing air in? DOH! Although didn't get any oil leaking out of it...

    I'd also got my cup & bars far flatter when filling rather than the 45 degree you and they mention. Will do a full bleed again later!

    I'll need to buy some more oil, have only about 50% of my little 50L thingy left. Crazy expensive for what it is, obviously loads cheaper to buy a litre and wish I'd done that to start with...! :rolleyes:

    Another great guide here including RS-785's and even on a Diverge :D - https://www.cyclist.co.uk/tutorials/786/how-to-bleed-shimano-hydraulic-road-disc-brakes
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  11. Jonny ///M

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004

    Posts: 10,091

    It seems long winded but the hoses take stupid turns and the reservoir sits weird too so it makes sense.

    Same with Avid/Sram brakes, you can sometimes wing it with a simple bottom up bleed but if you do it properly you are rewarded with nice feeling brakes.
     
  12. Roady

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,791

    Location: Hereford

    And we all like a nice feeling when we grab a handful!

    Yeah, many of the other 'solutions' on MTB really don't work on Road - hoses integrated into the forks so have to orientate the whole bike, taking the lever off the bars to rotate it is far more long winded etc etc.

    My next 'solution' was to leave it sat in all the different 'directions' of the hose from the caliper backwards to hopefully (evnetually) draw all the bubbles out the top... But equally if passing oil through the system didn't flush out the bubbles causing me problems I couldn't see how that would work. :confused:

    I'm still hopeful that riding it today will have 'shaken' the bubbles up through the system, so topping it up later is all I need to do. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  13. Jonny ///M

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004

    Posts: 10,091

    Not spongy like big diddies though, maybe nice and firm like a perky arse.
     
  14. Roady

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,791

    Location: Hereford

    Firm, progressive and perky braking. You heard it here first!
     
  15. resurgam

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 9, 2003

    Posts: 118

    Location: Birmingham

    Thanks for the advice!

    Decent scope to lose 5kg as I ride to eat and switching to eating to ride would make quite a bit of difference (if that makes sense). Normally I find that I gradually lose a few pounds over spring/summer but focussing on diet more than I currently do will certainly help. FTP last I tested was 290 or so (on a Tacx Vortex so real value will be less), but will be less at the moment as my riding volume has been pretty low in the last couple of months. Normally I lose fitness between now and spring, but will be focussing on regular riding over winter so as not to have too start from too low a base. I had a target of the World Championships long sportive (95 miles 6k feet) this year after doing very little at all in 2018, so I'm happy building training volume, it's just repeating that daily effort 3-4 days in a row that concerns me! On the plus side, riding the next day after that wasn't too unpleasant, although that was 50 flat miles rather than 100 and 4000 metres.

    Not a commuter - I'd have to cross Birmingham to get into the countryside and then busy roads to get to the office so it's only practical during school holidays. I've headed out to Shropshire a couple of times for rides as most of the stuff round here is short and sharp rather than the length I'm looking for. Family in North Yorkshire though so I could head up there and scout the longer climbs in the Dales.

    I can see AdZ getting a hammering over the next few months, at least I quite enjoy they way they have it designed, with each bend showing, rather than just free riding for an hour or so. I'm not sure I'll say the same after 2 or 3 ascents in a row.
     
  16. Berger

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 22, 2003

    Posts: 10,356

    Location: Wigan

    Got my mudguards! And now they are £20 less than I paid direct from Kinesis on PBK... for the Kinesis fend off guards!

    Anyway, onto fitting them, the front needs tweaking to clear the front fork. I have it fitting but where it curves down to the side is quite close to the tyre.

    I have seen it mentioned they need some cutting or bending with the Tracer 1.5 fork and rim brakes, but no real information on how to do it.

    I’ve done a little bending using adjustable spanner’s to hold it but the guard seems too wide; I’d like a little more space between the guard/fork/tyre. Push it up too high and it touches the calliper.

    orange showing where I was going to trim back to, keep some of that bend in there to keep the strength in the guard.

    https://ibb.co/Qrz8dG7
     
  17. XE11

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 26, 2013

    Posts: 326

    Location: London

    For those who's looking for new toys, planet x is offering FSA K-Force carbon drop bar for 55. only avaliable in 40/42 and green and red tho. Also there is a Nano version which drops the weigth further but that's more expensive at 90. i went with the 55 version because i dont think the extra money is worth the grams saving. still sub-200g, that will do me just fine.
     
  18. xdcx

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 24, 2013

    Posts: 2,742

    Just quickly reading though latest posts and see talk of nipples, big diddies and perky arses.
    It's not a complaint. It's an observation.

    As you were.
     
  19. Roady

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,791

    Location: Hereford

    Pretty much did this but bleed screw took around half a turn to get oil flowing through. Bike orientated further over (45 degrees on oil in the funnel) seemed to do the trick, as did removing the caliper and having the bleed screw the highest point of the caliper. Zero air bubbles in the oil coming out and only 1 tiny one in the funnel. So think it was just air sat in that part of the caliper!?

    New pads, couple of light burn in's done but still lots of bedding in to do. Also had to do some pretty heavy braking when some idiot decided to do a U turn across the cycle path in front of me, hope that helps them! :rolleyes:

    So which side are you and how far out? Brum isn't that bad once you're out of the central madness. I recall Dale being quite central ( @ThaReaperGuy ) and he seemed to find several ok routes with various clubs. He doesn't seem to ride much now though. Lots of ok roads/riding North/West (have Family north & in Cannock and friends in Stourbridge/Halesowen) and I don't recall Solihull being that bad once out towards the M42 (had a work site there).

    I'd stick to bending, or be really cautious trimming that much of the sides off as you'll loose lots of strength from it. A flappy guard is horrible and usually damages paintwork while driving you crazy. I had parts of my frame starting to get rubbed from guards but covered them with the clear plastic frame protectors a year or two ago and they seem to have done the trick. I'd take pictures but mine is so filthy at the moment (can barely make out the Zipp logos on my rear wheel lol!).

    Dang, if the guards are now £20 cheaper how damn expensive where they?! I thought £45 for mine was really overpriced.

    Benefits of having disc brake riders here... Gravel bikes are cool ok! :cool:
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  20. Berger

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 22, 2003

    Posts: 10,356

    Location: Wigan

    £50 plus £6 postage. Now £35 at PBK.

    Where’s the loyalty for buying direct.

    Good call on the heli tape.

    Back to bend, trial, bend, trial.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019