Road Cycling

[Roady]

I've never seen a difficulty? I can sprint well. Often in the upper end of sprint tables, but on gradients I watch people cruise past me...

We've got a trainer thread for most of this lol - disclaimer before all the purists get bored of all the zTalk.

There's a 'Trainer Difficulty Setting' - think the default is set as 50% so those 8% gradients you've been riding them at 4% feel with your power/speed half what it could've been...

https://zwiftinsider.com/using-the-trainer-difficulty-setting-in-zwift/

Have to admit I generally have mine on around 85% as found that about right for general racing and the ramps around, also means AdZ doesn't hurt as much, can sit & spin the whole thing... Not sure I could at 100%!

The Surrey Hills is pretty much where 70%+ of London cyclists go on the weekend.

Oh I knew it was popular, there's obviously a good reason for that!

I had someone doing laps of the Harrogate full course at 15 w/kg when I was on last week. I think I worked out it was about 80 mph.

I can't see the point, it's not even like it's got enough ascent to get the Tron bike quickly.

With the 'Drop Shop' now in there, there are reasons for people to do it. Flag them! Although it's quite sceptical if Zwift ever actually do anything when paying subscribers are flagged, it's about all you can do!

 

[UTmaniac]

I've never seen a difficulty? I can sprint well. Often in the upper end of sprint tables, but on gradients I watch people cruise past me...

https://zwiftinsider.com/using-the-trainer-difficulty-setting-in-zwift/

 

[AndyCr15]

Thanks. I don't entirely get what it means by 'the same power would be needed'. But surely it's applying less resistance to you? Is it effectively lengthening it instead of making it steeper?

 

[Trox]

Thanks. I don't entirely get what it means by 'the same power would be needed'. But surely it's applying less resistance to you? Is it effectively lengthening it instead of making it steeper?

It doesnt change the power needed to do a climb in a certain time it just changes how it feels. Basically, the lower the difficulty the less gear changes you will do almost like how a dumb trainer without erg works.

It enables you to spin rather than grind the gears depending on difficulty setting.

 

[AndyCr15]

Okay. I don't really get it still. I'm sure I'm just being thick as to me the same cadence and different gears means different watts? Less resistence would mean less gears and less power? But as I say, I'm probably being a bit dim, I'll adjust it perhaps and see what happens **EDIT** Reading you again, I think it's what I think. It effectively flattens it out, which means it gets lengthened a bit? You're sill climbing the same height, just drawn out a little.

In other news, I got a top 10 today (back to on the road) in a segment that has almost 6,000 riders (Cattlegate Cottages (Sprint)). Perhaps the biggest segment I have a top 10 on I think.



I was 11th, but I noticed the number 1 was 6s and an average speed of over 100mph?!?! So I flagged it...

 

[Roady]

Okay. I don't really get it still. I'm sure I'm just being thick as to me the same cadence and different gears means different watts? Less resistence would mean less gears and less power? But as I say, I'm probably being a bit dim, I'll adjust it perhaps and see what happens **EDIT** Reading you again, I think it's what I think. It effectively flattens it out, which means it gets lengthened a bit? You're sill climbing the same height, just drawn out a little.

Just consider it like a change in gearing ratios. In practice it works kinda opposite to this, but a rider with a 50T front ring and a rider with a 53T front ring riding will still put out the same wattages on a climb in the same rear gear, but the 53T rider will be a much lower cadence for that same wattage. They both climb at the same rate as putting out the same wattage (and all other variables are equal).

The difficulty slider works the opposite to this, dropping it decreases the gradient simulation/resitance applied by the trainer, in a way making the gear required easier for the climb easier. But more like it increases the cadence required to sustain that same wattage in that same gear combination. You can basically climb higher gradient without needing to change down as it's not as 'hard'.

Top end racers tend to have it lower so as they hit rolling parts of a course they don't feel as much resistance, technically they just slow down. As those riders generally 'know' the course well enough they know to increase cadence/efforts at those points so they don't drop speed. Also most of the time they're in a group so the draft/tow effect of the group negates much of the slow down...

When you consider most riders are using their 'old summer bike' on the Trainer, this will usually have a standard crankset or such, so is quite 'high' geared, so dropping the slider is like them fitting a sub compact crank and 28/32t rear cassette. Then you find riders with hybrid or Gravel bikes having to ramp the slider to 100% as their gear ratios are much lower, without it they can't get fast enough...

In other news, I got a top 10 today (back to on the road) in a segment that has almost 6,000 riders (Cattlegate Cottages (Sprint)). Perhaps the biggest segment I have a top 10 on I think.



I was 11th, but I noticed the number 1 was 6s and an average speed of over 100mph?!?! So I flagged it...

Segment is flagged as unsafe so it doesn't really count mate!

48mph downhill straight to a junction - please ride safe!

 

[One More Solo]

How fast you move on Zwift (ignoring drafting) is just a product of the power you're doing. Trainer difficulty adjusts how gradients feel. Set to zero, everything will feel flat regardless of what's on screen. Set to max, the difference between (e.g.) 0% and 15% is amplified.

 

[AndyCr15]

Segment is flagged as unsafe so it doesn't really count mate!

48mph downhill straight to a junction - please ride safe!

It counts! It definitely counts... I'm definitely counting it!

From the point you're at top speed, it's a good 100m to 150m uphill before the junction. This is what's annoyed me., I've always just used that bit to see what speed I could hit (I didn't even realise there was a segment there) the latter part of it (6 or 7 seconds of the 14) I've eased up and I still got top 10.

 

[AndyCr15]

How fast you move on Zwift (ignoring drafting) is just a product of the power you're doing.

I think you've also ignored gradient and weight... gradient being the the whole point of the discussion

I think I get it though, the gearing thing makes sense. Basically instead of ramping up resistance, it just lowers the speed that is created from the power you're making, as a trade off. (Effectively lengthening it, as I said)

 

[Lethal`]

I was 11th, but I noticed the number 1 was 6s and an average speed of over 100mph?!?! So I flagged it...

Short segments are rife with GPS errors like this. IMO they should ban short segments as they're too unreliable.

That reminds me... I lost my 1st place on a segment with 130k+ people (RideLondon route) last year. Some beast took it. I don't think I've any chance of getting that back without a great tailwind and a vehicle draft

 

[One More Solo]

I think you've also ignored gradient and weight... gradient being the the whole point of the discussion

I think I get it though, the gearing thing makes sense. Basically instead of ramping up resistance, it just lowers the speed that is created from the power you're making, as a trade off. (Effectively lengthening it, as I said)

That’s basically it. If you do 200w on the flat and 200w on a climb it will feel the same if trainer difficulty is set to 0, but your in game speed up the climb will still be reduced because it’s a gradient (the effect of which depends on your in game weight).

 

[xdcx]

I run 45% difficulty on trainer with 53 big ring and 11-28.
I'm never in the little ring at all in races. Alpe, Epic KOM, Innsbruck KOM etc I do all in the big ring in 26 or harder on back. Only use little ring for first 5 mins warming up. On the flats I am running middle of cassette and the 2x gears you'll find me in see me sat either 92-94 RPM pushing on or 100-105RPM spinning higher wattages for an easier time in the bunch.

Seems to work pretty well for racing on Zwift and Roady hit nail on the head in earlier post about why folks use lower percentage difficulties on their trainers in the game.

 

[UTmaniac]

I think you've also ignored gradient and weight... gradient being the the whole point of the discussion

I think I get it though, the gearing thing makes sense. Basically instead of ramping up resistance, it just lowers the speed that is created from the power you're making, as a trade off. (Effectively lengthening it, as I said)

The rear mech cable on my road bike snapped a while ago, so by adjusting the high/low limit screws on my rear mech, it is fixed on my 5th smallest sprocket (which by default is 16T on my 11-32 cassette). So all I have is 34/16 or 50/16 as gear choices, which is no issue for ERG training sessions and can be made to work up any Zwift routes by adjusting "trainer difficulty" (slope feel).

I entered stage 2 of Tour de Zwift yesterday, doing the "event only" Innsbruck KOM After Party route, which officially ends at the summit of the cat2 climb after three laps around the town and up the little "leg snapper" incline. I'd already done my ~75min "TT Tune-Up" plan workout and cool down a few hours earlier, plus I had a fairly hard turbo day on Weds, so I lowered "trainer difficulty" to 40% in the hope I could complete the route without wrecking my legs too much and making a hard session today possible.

"Leg snapper" incline is ~7% gradient, but the power I needed to sustain climbing it in either 34/16 (lap 1) or 50/16 (lap2) was as if I was climbing a ~2.8% incline, ~155W https://www.strava.com/activities/3017042392/analysis/393/566 /207W https://www.strava.com/activities/3017042392/analysis/1291/1412 respectively.

Innsbruck KOM cat2 is ~5% average (but it hits over 10% and practically levels out in parts), but it rode on average as if I was climbing a ~2% hill, which including a silly little sprint at the summit averaged 200W while staying in 50/16 the whole climb https://www.strava.com/activities/3017042392/analysis/2935/4847 .
In comparison, when I had working gears and I used 100% "trainer difficulty" as per normal up the KOM last Feb, I would have almost certainly stayed in the 34T ring and switched between various sprockets up to and including 16T to average 292W https://www.strava.com/activities/2153525352/analysis/457/1849

100% trainer difficulty makes Zwift replicate the effort of a similar outdoor incline as closely as it can. However, this is limited by what slope emulation your turbo can do, for example my Direto can emulate up to 14% gradient. The maximum gradient in Zwift is ~20% (Yorkshire), so if I wanted to feel the extra gradient on all slopes I would set trainer difficulty to ~70%, at 100% all the >14% slopes feel no harder. But I prefer, when I have workign gears, to usually use 100% in readiness to tackle real outdoor hills and have a better idea of what gear I can turn on a given gradient on a good day.

 

[Roady]

How fast you move on Zwift (ignoring drafting) is just a product of the power you're doing. Trainer difficulty adjusts how gradients feel. Set to zero, everything will feel flat regardless of what's on screen. Set to max, the difference between (e.g.) 0% and 15% is amplified.

Yup. Although with it set to 100% the difference between 0% and 15% would be the 15% feels like an actual 15% climb, not amplified to feel like ont? Well amplified from anything lower but I'm not aware you can make things steeper on Zwift... Although that would be cool!

From the point you're at top speed, it's a good 100m to 150m uphill before the junction. This is what's annoyed me., I've always just used that bit to see what speed I could hit (I didn't even realise there was a segment there) the latter part of it (6 or 7 seconds of the 14) I've eased up and I still got top 10.

Haha I was only pulling your chain a bit, I know how good it is to get on a leaderboard, not that I'm on many! Boohoo! Was just trying to highlight some of the danger in segment hunting if that's what you where doing. Some of them are just in stupid places so you have to ride dangerously to complete. Not something we encourage on here as it's so easy to get hurt anyway!

it just lowers the speed that is created from the power you're making, as a trade off. (Effectively lengthening it, as I said)

Correct, although nitpicking, it only lengthens it, if the rider is riding at the same gear/cadence as in theory the effort is easier, so the rider should be pushing a harder gear to maintain the same power levels.

So the same effort (power) is just in a higher gear, which on screen at the lower difficulty setting is the same 'progress' as the rider would be in a lower gear at the same power at 100%. The power/progress/effort is no different, it's just in a different gear.

Short segments are rife with GPS errors like this. IMO they should ban short segments as they're too unreliable.

Yup. I would link some but most of the ones I know about here I've flagged them to death and it looks like Strava have actually been quite good at removing them! I'm actually quite impressed as it bugged me a while ago. Still get people comparing themselves or racing on segments which they shouldn't... Lower your risk on the bike as much as possible guys. Maybe I'm just getting old!

EDIT: Bike Porn. Venge. AXS. eTap. Drool. https://www.strava.com/activities/3018449294

Guy I know works/stays in Dubai some of the year (especially over winter!) so always hires something nice when out there for several months this time of year... Lucky sob!

 

[Adam-r]

I run 45% difficulty on trainer with 53 big ring and 11-28.
I'm never in the little ring at all in races. Alpe, Epic KOM, Innsbruck KOM etc I do all in the big ring in 26 or harder on back. Only use little ring for first 5 mins warming up. On the flats I am running middle of cassette and the 2x gears you'll find me in see me sat either 92-94 RPM pushing on or 100-105RPM spinning higher wattages for an easier time in the bunch.

Seems to work pretty well for racing on Zwift and Roady hit nail on the head in earlier post about why folks use lower percentage difficulties on their trainers in the game.

I’ve had mine set at 100% for ages. Maybe that’s why I’m getting toasted during races?!

 

[#Chri5#]

Bit of light Friday viewing

Each year, on the windiest day of the year, the Dutch Headwind Cycling Championships take place on the Oosterscheldekering Storm Surge Barrier. Over 200 competitors ride the 8.5 km course against 100+ km/hr winds on upright single-speed bikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb_sozJb01Q&feature=youtu.be

 

[DaleTheWhale]

After a quick bit of advice as I'm clueless with disk brakes. Girlfriend has just got herself a Planetx Pro Evo Carbon (Rival 22 with Disks) which we're happy with. Wondering whether thru-axle quick releases are usable on road bikes? I'm looking at the DT Swiss RWS 12mm which matches the spec I have (142x12mm), just wanted to double check if it's doable or anything we should be aware about?

 

[Shimmyhill]

So I have a quandary... got my new Cannondale Topstone delivered but need pedals, do I go with look keo as per my other road bikes or SPD ? I have a 1 mile commute but still likely to wear bike clothing and carry work stuff but mainly will be my winter bike likely to be used on turbo duties also.

I have some road and MTB shoes albeit my MTB shoes aren’t the comfiest, what do you reckon?

 

[Lethal`]

I'd wear SPDs on a gravel bike. I would like the option to just nip off road, have some fun in mud for a bit. That wouldn't be quite so fun with road pedals/cleats and failing to clip back in when they're clogged with mud.

I rode about 2 years or so on SPDs on the road before I switched to SPD-SL. They're not all that different and I was certainly quicker to clip in and get moving off the lights in SPDs.

 

[SoliD]

After a quick bit of advice as I'm clueless with disk brakes. Girlfriend has just got herself a Planetx Pro Evo Carbon (Rival 22 with Disks) which we're happy with. Wondering whether thru-axle quick releases are usable on road bikes? I'm looking at the DT Swiss RWS 12mm which matches the spec I have (142x12mm), just wanted to double check if it's doable or anything we should be aware about?

Why do you need them? Just use the multitool youre carrying. I have the DT Swiss RWS on my Canyons and one of the levers broke and the seating isn't massively secure now.