Roast Chicken

Raymond Lin · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:15

WHAT!!! said:
These chickens was the best you can basicaly get and were from france, they have large outdoor areas to roam and are feed on corn i beleive it was.

Compare this to having 50,000 in a inclosed shed with no daylight and feed on proceeded food which are design for them to grow big/fat fast as possible while running around in there own muck and pecking each other also feed medication of some sort to prevent disease.

I know which one is more likely to causes problems if not cooked properly at low temperatures.

But surely bacteria is bacteria, just because you are posh doesn't mean you are not going to rot when you are dead.

Glaucus · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:20

Raymond Lin said:
But surely bacteria is bacteria, just because you are posh doesn't mean you are not going to rot when you are dead.

No but the chances of catching/having these bacteria are vastly reduced by not living in dirty cramped conditions.

Raymond Lin · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:22

AcidHell2 said:
No but the chances of catching/having these bacteria are vastly reduced by not living in dirty cramped conditions.

Except his reason to cook it at 60c is not because they are posh chickens, its because the aim is to keep the meat moist.

WHAT!!! · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:23

Raymond Lin said:
But surely bacteria is bacteria, just because you are posh doesn't mean you are not going to rot when you are dead.

Best way I can think to explain it is as a Private hospital with seperate rooms cleaned daily compared to a NHS hospital which has been packed 10 fold compared to normal so literaly beds touching each other.

Your more likely to spread disease in one compared to the other.

I know there is going to be bacteria in both chickens its just which will have more and which is more likely to be harmful if not cooked properly the way heston has shown.

I know which ones i would buy given money was'nt no problem.

i know nothing · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:23

WHAT!!! said:
These chickens was the best you can basicaly get and were from france, they have large outdoor areas to roam and are feed on corn i beleive it was.

Compare this to having 50,000 in a inclosed shed with no daylight and feed on proceeded food which are design for them to grow big/fat fast as possible while running around in there own muck and pecking each other also feed medication of some sort to prevent disease.

I know which one is more likely to causes problems if not cooked properly at low temperatures.

Oh you do eh?

Well next time you're up in Norfolk, let me know and I'll get one of the lads to show you around a certified organic and free range farm, I'll then get the Vet to sit down with you and take you through it.

As I said... utter tosh!

Glaucus · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:24

Raymond Lin said:
Except his reason to cook it at 60c is not because they are posh chickens, its because the aim is to keep the meat moist.

That's why he uses the safest chickens. It's like eating raw eggs. Millions of people do it yearly with no side effects, but they don't use cheap battery farmed eggs.

Raymond Lin · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:27

AcidHell2 said:
That's why he uses the safest chickens. It's like eating raw eggs. Millions of people do it yearly with no side effects, but they don't use cheap battery farmed eggs.

No, he picked those chicken because they tasted the best in a batch test of like 6 organic chickens. Not because a lab result shows they are low risk in bacteria.

i know nothing · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:32

AcidHell2 said:
That's why he uses the safest chickens. It's like eating raw eggs. Millions of people do it yearly with no side effects, but they don't use cheap battery farmed eggs.

You've been brainwashed by Eggwina Currie.

Glaucus · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:32

Raymond Lin said:
No, he picked those chicken because they tasted the best in a batch test of like 6 organic chickens. Not because a lab result shows they are low risk in bacteria.

Ah well, the risk is still low. Not every chicken has salmonellae. It's just like eggs though You pay your money You take your choice. As long as it's from a good and trusted supplier it should be fine.

As you can tell I missed the chicken one, watched the roast beef one though that looked so nice, cooked it for like 24hours or something stupid.

WHAT!!! · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:33

i know nothing said:
Oh you do eh?

Well next time you're up in Norfolk, let me know and I'll get one of the lads to show you around a certified organic and free range farm, I'll then get the Vet to sit down with you and take you through it.

As I said... utter tosh!

Well i've never been to norfolk nor can i see myself going there so can you not simple explain abit more as im no expert as i said, im going by all the facts i've come across over few years i've seen on tv / net / talking etc...

Your telling us a shed of 50,000 chickens fed processed food packed extremely close together and not given the room to move has the same chance of having harmful bacteria/disease than a well looked after organic feed free range version ?

pinkacidbootson · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:35

I think we should all stop arguing and agree that posh chickens are yummy.

i know nothing · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:42

WHAT!!! said:
Well i've never been to norfolk nor can i see myself going there so can you not simple explain abit more as im no expert as i said, im going by all the facts i've come across over few years i've seen on tv / net / talking etc...

Your telling us a shed of 50,000 chickens fed processed food packed extremely close together and not given the room to move has the same chance of having harmful bacteria/disease than a well looked after organic feed free range version ?

You were talking about bacteria, if the birds had disease they would never get as far as the dinner table!

There is so much crap on the internet about this subject it is just untrue. The subject pops up on this forum from time to time and you get the same crap regurgitated here. There are a whole list of reasons why it is complete rubbish, but suffice to say that the laws dictate that (poultry) meat has to meet a specific microbiological standard, customers may insist on higher standards.

Another painstakingly obvious point to make is that the majority of bacteria are in the intestinal tract, feet, feathers etc, as this is deemed unfit for human consumption it doesn't matter which bird it comes from as you will never eat it!

Oh and by the way, organic and free range birds are also fed processed food, unless you are talking about "hand reared" birds. Most amateurs who "hand rear" do not come anywhere near the requirements of the Soil Association.

WHAT!!! · 16 Jan 2007 at 19:54

i know nothing said:
You were talking about bacteria, if the birds had disease they would never get as far as the dinner table!

Oh and by the way, organic and free range birds are also fed processed food, unless you are talking about "hand reared" birds. Most amateurs who "hand rear" do not come anywhere near the requirements of the Soil Association.

I did mention disease/bacteria but what i mean is anything that is harmful when cooked in the manner Heston Blumenthal showed.

Would'nt feeding organic chickens processed food then make them chickens only free range? as organic would mean feed on only natural foods like corn or what ever they find when forageing around?

Anyways StarGate SG-1 and Battle Star Gallactica is on soon so got to go

i know nothing · 16 Jan 2007 at 20:15

WHAT!!! said:
I did mention disease/bacteria but what i mean is anything that is harmful when cooked in the manner Heston Blumenthal showed.

He should be aiming for 72 Deg C. Probability is he will be fine if the bird has been slaughtered, plucked, eviscerated and chilled correctly, but with the general public you can't be so careful (especially when food poisoning is a notifiable medical condition and half the country would happily sue your arse off given the opportunity :rolleyes:

), not everyone understands the risks.

WHAT!!! said:
Would'nt feeding organic chickens processed food then make them chickens only free range? as organic would mean feed on only natural foods like corn or what ever they find when forageing around?

You see you've fallen into the trap of thinking processed feed is "bad", it's just in a form that is easier to administer. The feed is processed from organic material (e.g. organic wheat or organic corn).

And no, organic and free range birds eat from 'feeders' just like other poultry, they do not forage for their food, some farmers will deliberately scatter some feed on the ground, take a few photos and claim that they do forage

Elzar · 16 Jan 2007 at 20:25

The bird was blanched and refreshed a couple of times prior to drying in an attempt to kill the bacteria on the outside and in the cavity of the bird.
The bird was cooked at 60C for a number of hours and the core temp of all meat was proven to be 60C or above by probe.

jezsoup · 16 Jan 2007 at 20:52

Elzar said:
The bird was blanched and refreshed a couple of times prior to drying in an attempt to kill the bacteria on the outside and in the cavity of the bird.
The bird was cooked at 60C for a number of hours and the core temp of all meat was proven to be 60C or above by probe.

There we go that makes sense!! You woudl get very VERY tender chicken which will be nice;ly un-diseased. I did a rib joint kinda like how he did it, apart from 50C 24 hours I did 120 or so for 10 ish hours then blow torched the outside mmmmmmmmmm.

whitecrook · 16 Jan 2007 at 20:54

For some reason I saw the tail end of this programme the other night as well, much more interesting than most other cooking programs, but for me the roast potato section was more interesting - the cooking with salt/ without salt was enlightening to say the least.

Raymond Lin · 16 Jan 2007 at 20:55

Elzar said:
The bird was blanched and refreshed a couple of times prior to drying in an attempt to kill the bacteria on the outside and in the cavity of the bird.
The bird was cooked at 60C for a number of hours and the core temp of all meat was proven to be 60C or above by probe.

He did put in boiling water then ice water couple of times, still...........60c is perfect for bacteria, i would have thought even thou he killed off all surface bacteria, won't there be some inside?

i know nothing · 16 Jan 2007 at 21:00

Raymond Lin said:
i would have thought even thou he killed off all surface bacteria, won't there be some inside?

The bacteria will be on the surfaces, he would most likely have killed it off if he blanched it. It makes sense.

EDIT: what he did regarding the chilled water is an old Dutch trick. A few years ago the Dutch were had up for this, they were 'tumbling' chicken meat in mixers (think of a stainless steel cement mixer) with chilled water. The meat absorbed an incredible amount of moisture, so much so that when it was tested they found that 20-30% was water, trading standards nicked them for it!

Glaucus · 16 Jan 2007 at 21:02

Raymond Lin said:
He did put in boiling water then ice water couple of times, still...........60c is perfect for bacteria, i would have thought even thou he killed off all surface bacteria, won't there be some inside?

very minimal that's why you can eat rare steak. the body is pretty much sterile. So it's just contamination on the surface you have to worry about.