Robert Jordan’s fantasy epic The Wheel of Time coming to TV

OspreyO · 6 Sep 2023 at 20:53

Actually a few agendas that annoy me with this. One is a lot of woke padding, the second is to sell the series on the basis it's something is not.

Another is to take on a project that you don't like, only to turn it into something else in the hope your next gig is something you actually want to do. Without regard to the steaming pile you leave in your wake.

That is finds an audience that likes it, I'm happy for them. I think that's more of dumb luck than skill of the director. For example its found a good global audience. Perhaps because of the multicultural casting. But it's been done so crudely to be borderline offensive.

OspreyO · 6 Sep 2023 at 20:54

Parsley said:
One of my memories of the book series is the amount of description put into whatever dress so and so was wearing at any given moment in time . I did enjoy it, but it was very long winded at times.

Books are way too long, and meandering.

Parsley · 6 Sep 2023 at 21:25

I struggle with a lot of book to film/TV adaptation. I have my own picture of things in my head and seeing another take, especially a take that doesn't stay loyal to the material, makes it difficult for me to just sit and enjoy it. The only adaptations I can think of, off the top of my head, that I've really engaged with are the original Jackson LOTR trilogy (any changes made I understood as being needed to be made for the sake of adaptation, the spirit of the books was respected) and The Witcher games, but the Witcher games were really a well written fan fiction set after the books, so that got an easy pass.

Some things are changed so much that they may as well have created an entirely new setting + characters. But then that wouldn't sell as well would it.

The Sharpe TV series was a good effort. And The Expanse. Game of Thrones to, until they got ahead of the books.

Rroff · 7 Sep 2023 at 03:39

Jackson LOTR trilogy was one of the few book to TV/film adaptions which I thought really nailed how I imagined the books, some bits aside.

Greebo · 7 Sep 2023 at 08:12

SPG said:
Oh cmon the books went oooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn it could have been all over in 4 or 5.

Still liking the TV show.

That can be said for the later books in the series, you could have easily dumped at least 3 books and the story wouldnt be that much less without them, but the earlier books up to about book 7 raced along.

PlacidCasual · 7 Sep 2023 at 12:37

In one respect I envy those who haven't read the books, I'm watching S2 E3 and so far they've been trashing the source material. It's not The Boys level of disregard which is a show merely inspired by the comic but at the current rate of divergence it will get there. I'm really struggling to enjoy it because I can't let go of the books, there is probably an enjoyable show for someone arriving fresh but it's doubtful for me.

SPG · 7 Sep 2023 at 13:26

Parsley said:
I struggle with a lot of book to film/TV adaptation. I have my own picture of things in my head and seeing another take, especially a take that doesn't stay loyal to the material, makes it difficult for me to just sit and enjoy it. The only adaptations I can think of, off the top of my head, that I've really engaged with are the original Jackson LOTR trilogy (any changes made I understood as being needed to be made for the sake of adaptation, the spirit of the books was respected) and The Witcher games, but the Witcher games were really a well written fan fiction set after the books, so that got an easy pass.

Some things are changed so much that they may as well have created an entirely new setting + characters. But then that wouldn't sell as well would it.

The Sharpe TV series was a good effort. And The Expanse. Game of Thrones to, until they got ahead of the books.

Sharpe was great, Hornblower captured the same vibe as well, proper Man TV. Wouldn't be allowed now...

Parsley · 7 Sep 2023 at 14:19

SPG said:
Sharpe was great, Hornblower captured the same vibe as well, proper Man TV. Wouldn't be allowed now...

Master and Commander was a great movie to.

VonScar · 7 Sep 2023 at 20:56

So, Season 2, the hype was that it was a better series than Season One. Described as less rushed...Spoiler first three episodes, boring.

Almost 3 episodes, huge variances from book two and book three in plot. Uninteresting actors, given unnecessary time (Liandrin).

Hunt for The Horn of Valere, you would think was all on Perrin, it was not. Rand (episode one, almost Randless).

Terrible and stupid introduction of Selene. Terrible and stupid death, Uno.

Can it get much worse? Its slow, and the plot has been thrown out of the window. The most important character's Rand, Matt and Perrin, are making guest appearances in the Morraine/Nynaeve/Egwene show...And the acting is not good.

C Kent · 7 Sep 2023 at 21:20

VonScar said:
So, Season 2, the hype was that it was a better series than Season One. Described as less rushed...Spoiler first three episodes, boring.

Almost 3 episodes, huge variances from book two and book three in plot. Uninteresting actors, given unnecessary time (Liandrin).

Hunt for The Horn of Valere, you would think was all on Perrin, it was not. Rand (episode one, almost Randless).

Terrible and stupid introduction of Selene. Terrible and stupid death, Uno.

Can it get much worse? Its slow, and the plot has been thrown out of the window. The most important character's Rand, Matt and Perrin, are making guest appearances in the Morraine/Nynaeve/Egwene show...And the acting is not good.

Of course it can, and it will. 100% guaranteed.

Rroff · 8 Sep 2023 at 01:11

Hmm looks like they are trickling out the rest of the episodes in the UK - originally was said they were dropping in 2 batches. Unless it picks up a lot I think that is going to do the show more harm than good.

EDIT: Much better episode to be fair though I still struggle with the way people hold backing information for no good reason other than artificial writing reasons and generally are sulky with each other.

Greebo · 8 Sep 2023 at 08:45

VonScar said:
So, Season 2, the hype was that it was a better series than Season One. Described as less rushed...Spoiler first three episodes, boring.

Almost 3 episodes, huge variances from book two and book three in plot. Uninteresting actors, given unnecessary time (Liandrin).

Hunt for The Horn of Valere, you would think was all on Perrin, it was not. Rand (episode one, almost Randless).

Terrible and stupid introduction of Selene. Terrible and stupid death, Uno.

Can it get much worse? Its slow, and the plot has been thrown out of the window. The most important character's Rand, Matt and Perrin, are making guest appearances in the Morraine/Nynaeve/Egwene show...And the acting is not good.

Uno dies? FFS where's the spoilers man!!!!!!!!!!!

PlacidCasual · 8 Sep 2023 at 08:54

Greebo said:
Uno dies? FFS where's the spoilers man!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel your pain. But tis merely a scratch compared to incoming injury when you watch the show.

Greebo · 8 Sep 2023 at 11:03

Uno is one of my favourite characters from the book

toshj · 8 Sep 2023 at 21:35

Having desperately wanted S1 to be excellent but really wasn't too impressed - although the rewatch was an improvement - I've been pleasantly surprised by S2. That said, I've come to the conclusion that you just can't adapt a fantasy series like WoT. It's too long, too varied, too reliant on the lore, etc.

I think you have to take it all with a pinch of salt - they've only got 8 episodes and therefore are having to take massive shortcuts all over the place. But once you've cone to terms with this fact, then you can see how they've tried to stick to certain important parts of the plot.

I thought E2 and E3 were strong - particularly for WoT readers - but E4 dropped off a little. I've come to terms with it being a very loose adaptation and I can't really be bothered to get annoyed by it.

My main concern is that I don't think it's got the legs to even make it halfway they the book series before being cancelled. The acting is very poor in places, and I can imagine any non-readers to be quite confused most of the time. Starting an adaptation of the WoT but not finishing it would be a real *******... so much so that I'd rather they not start one in the first place if there was any risk of it not completing.

VonScar · 10 Sep 2023 at 07:22

toshj said:
Having desperately wanted S1 to be excellent but really wasn't too impressed - although the rewatch was an improvement - I've been pleasantly surprised by S2. That said, I've come to the conclusion that you just can't adapt a fantasy series like WoT. It's too long, too varied, too reliant on the lore, etc.

I think you have to take it all with a pinch of salt - they've only got 8 episodes and therefore are having to take massive shortcuts all over the place. But once you've cone to terms with this fact, then you can see how they've tried to stick to certain important parts of the plot.

I thought E2 and E3 were strong - particularly for WoT readers - but E4 dropped off a little. I've come to terms with it being a very loose adaptation and I can't really be bothered to get annoyed by it.

My main concern is that I don't think it's got the legs to even make it halfway they the book series before being cancelled. The acting is very poor in places, and I can imagine any non-readers to be quite confused most of the time. Starting an adaptation of the WoT but not finishing it would be a real *******... so much so that I'd rather they not start one in the first place if there was any risk of it not completing.

I agree, we appear to have the bargain basement adaption, dire actors and not very good scripts that pay lip service to the plot.

Whilst, the entirety of the books cannot be put onto the screen. The sheer hubris of the "creator" Judkins and his writers with the poetic licence taken with the plot beggars belief. Repeating myself, we have the Morraine/Nynaeve and Egwene show, with special guest star appearances by the Dragon Reborn/Mat and Perrin...The show makes every effort to detract from its male heroes. I mean the most important character of the entire book, in episode one of series two he gets less than five minutes in it.

The Myrddraal also, in the books they are smart intelligent devious beings that speak, and terrify with just a stare. In the TV series we get crappy CGI none speaking cartoons that are as thick as planks. I know which version I find scarier.

Oh and the actress playing Selene, though attractive and lovely in her own right, does not fit in with a "Selene". I suppose the difficulty here is that Jordan described as one of the most beautiful people in the world and almost matching The Dragon. Which is a hard act to follow. Plus in the books, she had various appearances (this would have more interesting to explore), younger, older and...well different.

This show will be cancelled, or should be. Even none book readers should be put off by the plot being confusing.

McPhee · 10 Sep 2023 at 11:16

Season 2 is a mixed bag for me.

Overall, it's an improvement over the first season. In some areas the improvement is drastic. On others, it's slight.

Aesthetically, the second season is a monumental improvement. Costume design and set design is a lot better, and they've restored some of the ethnic & cultural diversity of Jordan's world (though there's no undoing the mistakes of the first season in this area).

Dialogue is, I think, much better than in the first season. And most of the actors now appear to have settled into their roles.

But there are still big issues with the plot.

The events at the White Tower involving Nynaeve and Egwene are fine. A lot of the details are different from the books, but the story is heading in the right direction.

Perrin's arc is a similar story - different details, but the same end result.

My biggest gripe is that Mat feels forgotten about & Rand feels sidelined. Hopefully this changes in the second half of the season. Episode 4 does start to get these characters moving.

And then there's Moiraine's story, which is just bizarre. A complete departure and significant personality shift. Where they are going here, I have no idea :confused:

Personally, I don't have a problem with them making changes for the show. They've got to condense 15 books into 8 seasons (~64 hours if the episode count and runtime remains the same as S1&2). ASOIAF told the story of 7 books across 8 seasons (70 hours total runtime) and still left significant amounts of stuff on the cutting room floor; cut plotlines, missing characters, merged stories, etc. So it would be naïve to expect WoT to be anything other than worse for this.

The issue for me isn't changes being made, but whether those changes make sense. Which is where the issues come in. The changes with Mat and Rand may play out fine in the end, but right now they don't make any sense. And it's difficult to see where they're going with Moiraine...

gazref · 10 Sep 2023 at 11:24

S2 is worse than S1. I got 3, maybe 4 episodes in and quit. They should cancel the show, give everyone time to forget about it then try again in 10yrs.

casper_uk · 10 Sep 2023 at 11:53

I think it's the Moiraine and Lan story which is confusing me the most. Not sure why they have gone this way, unless they decided they couldn't do without Moiraine in the second season (I don't think she features heavily in book 2 and 3 from what I can remember). I can only think that she is shielded and nobody realises as it's the male half of the source. Maybe Rand will be the one to remove the shield by accident?

RobHu · 10 Sep 2023 at 16:51

I actually thought the first few episodes of S1 were decent enough, but the last couple lost me when they didn't so much diverge but butcher the storyline. In S1 I also forgave a lot of the actors delivering quite wooden performances but it's now starting to grate for some of them who haven't settled into their role. Perrin especially seems so stiff every time he talks. Almost unwatchable for me when you can tell the actor so desperately wants to drop the T from the end of his words :cry:

.

I don't really care that they've changed the plot so much but I no longer view it as WoT, it's a generic mid budget fantasy show with a vaguely similar story. Weirdly this actually makes me hate when they put random easter eggs in for actual fans here and there - It's almost insulting.

I'm watching because there isn't any other decent fantasy on TV, can't see it lasting more than 3-4 seasons in total. All that said I do think S2 is better and more watchable than S1, even if most of that is just down to better production values. If they keep up that trajectory and it somehow isn't cancelled then by season 5ish it might be a pretty good mostly original fantasy I guess

.

casper_uk said:
I think it's the Moiraine and Lan story which is confusing me the most. Not sure why they have gone this way, unless they decided they couldn't do without Moiraine in the second season (I don't think she features heavily in book 2 and 3 from what I can remember). I can only think that she is shielded and nobody realises as it's the male half of the source. Maybe Rand will be the one to remove the shield by accident?

Yeah no idea what they are thinking with that. They could've just had her accompany Egwene/Nynaeve to the white tower and shown the stuff she was doing off-screen(page) during the great hunt (finding information about the prophecies, forsaken etc), along with some kind of white tower politics plotline that conveniently ties up with getting her where she needs to be at the end of the book.