Roy Hodgeson

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[J.D.C];18167148 said:

Sorry, I thought the ridiculous comments you were talking about were the ones from you about Liverpool fans claming Benitez was perfect.

If you actually read through the thread you'll find most Liverpool fans acknowledging that things were far from perfect in Benitez's last year and that it's actually supporters of other teams that keep bringing him up.
 
Wouldn't go that far. He's dropped a few clangers this season.

Yeah, Roy said it at the start of the season, not post Arsenal or the others, before that he was well ahead of anyone in the world, argueably casillas too, casillas even credited him with saving the Cardoza peno in WC.
EDIT: Ever since i guess Pepe is playing more english, up there with Seamen and a few ben foster ones at the moment.

In response to the guy saying United playing very well, yes they did, after they scored the penalty, absolutely **** before that and being played of the park with modric controlling the game.

Spurs conceded one, got very nervous and let it slip.
 
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If we want to discuss general topics related to our club, such as whether Rafa should have been let go, whether you'd take him back surely it makes more sense for club topics to be allowed?
 
If we want to discuss general topics related to our club, such as whether Rafa should have been let go, whether you'd take him back surely it makes more sense for club topics to be allowed?

We've been over this many times. The Don's decided against it.

It's best to drop the Benitez stuff too, it only provides Mancs with something to say whenever we mention how bad Hodgson has done.
 
Inter Milan were NOT the Best Club in Europe when he took over - winning the Champions League isn't a barometer of this - it's a knockout club competition - see Liverpool in 2005 (incidentally managed at the time by Benitez).

I'm not using the Champions League as the barometer. I'm using the fact that they won everything at a canter as the Barometer. Under Mourinho they were tactically aware, solid and always capable of scoring goals.

Who were a better team in Europe?
 
Except I'm not: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=18158644#post18158644

It was about whether or not Hodgeson had less 'class' than Benitez or not.

Fair enough, I thought you were referring to the stuff Rotty cleaned in the Benitez/Inter thread.

I never read any of that stuff so I don't know who brought it up but if you read back through what hasn't been removed from this thread or any other thread where a Liverpool fan has complained about Hodgson and it's DM or a Manc that keeps bringing Benitez up.
 
We've been over this many times. The Don's decided against it.

It's best to drop the Benitez stuff too, it only provides Mancs with something to say whenever we mention how bad Hodgson has done.

Well i don't really mind what they say, something to discuss.

Someone explained to me why the Dons decided against it but the thread got cleaned up and post was removed(or im very dumb at trying to find it which is more than likely), mind enlightening me on why please?
 
Well i don't really mind what they say, something to discuss.

Someone explained to me why the Dons decided against it but the thread got cleaned up and post was removed(or im very dumb at trying to find it which is more than likely), mind enlightening me on why please?
It was removed, as mentioned above.

The post said that posters tended to stick to their own club's threads.

Personally it makes me shiver to think of a Spud's club thread, all the back-patting and smug reach-arounds... :o
 
Stripped us of talent?

He left a squad of, Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Mascherano, Agger, Aurellio, Aqualani(setting the italian league alight this season), Kuyt (perhaps woeful at times, big game player no doubt though). And started having his impact on our youth system with martin kelly, dani pachecho, suso, ayala, shelvey.
He overplayed Torres and got him injured. He annoyed Gerrard who played a huge part in Benitez' demise. Reina is quality. Mascherano was as good as sold as the deal was done. Agger is a CB who is awful in the air, so overreated. Aurelio was released as he didn't want to offer him a new contract, Roy brought him back. Aquillani was £20m, 2/3's of the fee for Alonso and someone who never performed against English opposition in the Champions League. Kuyt is a player who makes up for a lack of quality in effort, so much so he was deployed as a wide right man from a Striker.

Of those youth players none of them have set the world alight, Kelly has played a couple of times (and done well in fairness), but those youth players are people he paid money for and saw no rewards.

Bar the youth system, that spine of a team is very good, and certainly capable of challenging a top 4 team. And by the way, Lucas has been our best player this season, not as **** as Sky sports make him out to be.
I've seen him have one blinding game and said as much on Twitter, I've watched about 6 Liverpool games this season and Reina has been your best player. Lucas has done alright when everyone around him is shocking. Let's not forget this is the same Lucas who has been poor for years and decent for weeks.


Hodgson isnt a bad manager? win % at fulham/blackburn/liverpool are all between 33-35%. He was gash at inter milan, granted he won some of the toughest leagues in europe like the danish one.
He was manager at Fulham. Fulham! What do you want from them? He got them into Europe and then did well in Europe. At Blackburn it was the era at the end of Walkers millions where he didn't want to put the money in. Liverpool he inherited a bad squad, but I didn't think he was the right man in the first place, he should be doing better I agree.

Now since you wish to be pedantic about our team being stripped of talent.
Rafa won 2 trophies in 6 months at inter milan.
He was managing a team riddled with injuries, Sneidjer, Milito, Motta, Samuel(massive lost since they are a defence minded team), cambiaso only coming back, maicon getting caught out that he is now too old.
Also perhaps that inter team overachieved last year and are completely exhausted after a world cup?
Maureen did well against barca with a 300million team didnt he?
He did well against a Barcelona team who also spend big (something that seems to be ignored). Rafa played those players into injuries (something he notoriously did to Torres and Gerrard in his Liverpool days), those players were never all out at the same time. Every club has injuries.
As for Maicon being "too old", he's 29 and was last year the best defender in Europe. You claim they're exhausted after a World Cup, but how many Inter players got far in that competition? Sneijder.

And one of those two trophies was a complete joke against nothing opposition. No one counts the World Club Cup as a proper trophy, so much so that Fifa started making the winners of it wear those stupid badges.

Rafael Benitez is in no way a perfect manager, but he is a world class manager. He was not allowed to finish building what he wished at liverpool, he was buying players as substitutes to the ones he wanted. We bought Jermaine Pennant because we didn't have funds for Dani Alves(as a right winger not right back i believe) nor Florent Malouda.
He is not World Class. He has taken over a team built by someone else and done well with them (in the cases of Valencia and Liverpool), in his time with them he's replaced the players with his own and they've not been the same. He won the Champions League with Houlliers squad and was so tactically inept in that time that he played Kewell over Hamann, only changing at half-time, which funnily enough was when Liverpool came back into it. Even Carragher was damning of it in his Autobiography.

This excuse for buying cheaper players is rubbish. Liverpool always needed wingers, but he'd spend a little here, a little there, always temporary fixes. Benitez DID have the money to buy big, look at his transfer record, he spent more money than either Man Utd or Chelsea in the same period.

Sounds like you just listen to british media as does everyone, the ones who back England to win the world cup (granted completely cheated out of it against Germany.)
Nevermind the whole pile of **** that went on behind the scenes with Christian Purslow making our signings and removing Rafael Benitez after one subpar year. Amazing how many years that clown has possibly set us back.
Actually, I don't. I'm capable of looking into things by myself.

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The squad Rafa inherited was far far far far far worse.
Dudek (godlike in istanbul, but very inconsistent), Djimi Traore, Smicer, Baros, injury prone Kewell, Diouf, Cisse, Igor Biscan, Josemi, and finnan was pretty meh.
Diouf was a clown, Josemi was purchased by Benitez. What you lacked in individual ability was made up for in squad unity. There was almost no separation between the foreigners, Hamann was very 'in' with the English crowd, as were the likes of Smicer and Biscan. A team will get you much further than a team of individuals.

I don't want this to come out like I'm anti-Liverpool, I'm not, never have been and some of my favourite people in Sports Arena are Liverpool fans. I'm merely giving my opinions on it based things mixed with a smattering of facts. Nothing is ever made up.
 
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What you lacked in individual ability was made up for in squad unity. There was almost no separation between the foreigners, Hamann was very 'in' with the English crowd, as were the likes of Smicer and Biscan. A team will get you much further than a team of individuals.

I'm not going to go over your entire post, been there and done that far too much but you couldn't be more wrong on this.

You're right regarding Hamann he's very much an adopted scouser and to a lesser extent Hyypia and Riise were too, however there was a huge divide between the French/African players and a group of English players (+ Hamann, Hyypia etc). Carra wrote about it in his book and actually mentioned how Benitez went to great lengths to bring the squad closer together.

edit: and check twitter :p
 
He overplayed Torres and got him injured. He annoyed Gerrard who played a huge part in Benitez' demise. Reina is quality. Mascherano was as good as sold as the deal was done. Agger is a CB who is awful in the air, so overreated. Aurelio was released as he didn't want to offer him a new contract, Roy brought him back. Aquillani was £20m, 2/3's of the fee for Alonso and someone who never performed against English opposition in the Champions League. Kuyt is a player who makes up for a lack of quality in effort, so much so he was deployed as a wide right man from a Striker.

Of those youth players none of them have set the world alight, Kelly has played a couple of times (and done well in fairness), but those youth players are people he paid money for and saw no rewards.

I've seen him have one blinding game and said as much on Twitter, I've watched about 6 Liverpool games this season and Reina has been your best player. Lucas has done alright when everyone around him is shocking. Let's not forget this is the same Lucas who has been poor for years and decent for weeks.



He was manager at Fulham. Fulham! What do you want from them? He got them into Europe and then did well in Europe. At Blackburn it was the era at the end of Walkers millions where he didn't want to put the money in. Liverpool he inherited a bad squad, but I didn't think he was the right man in the first place, he should be doing better I agree.


He did well against a Barcelona team who also spend big (something that seems to be ignored). Rafa played those players into injuries (something he notoriously did to Torres and Gerrard in his Liverpool days), those players were never all out at the same time. Every club has injuries.
As for Maicon being "too old", he's 29 and was last year the best defender in Europe. You claim they're exhausted after a World Cup, but how many Inter players got far in that competition? Sneijder.

And one of those two trophies was a complete joke against nothing opposition. No one counts the World Club Cup as a proper trophy, so much so that Fifa started making the winners of it wear those stupid badges.


He is not World Class. He has taken over a team built by someone else and done well with them (in the cases of Valencia and Liverpool), in his time with them he's replaced the players with his own and they've not been the same. He won the Champions League with Houlliers squad and was so tactically inept in that time that he played Kewell over Hamann, only changing at half-time, which funnily enough was when Liverpool came back into it. Even Carragher was damning of it in his Autobiography.

This excuse for buying cheaper players is rubbish. Liverpool always needed wingers, but he'd spend a little here, a little there, always temporary fixes. Benitez DID have the money to buy big, look at his transfer record, he spent more money than either Man Utd or Chelsea in the same period.


Actually, I don't. I'm capable of looking into things by myself.


Diouf was a clown, Josemi was purchased by Benitez. What you lacked in individual ability was made up for in squad unity. There was almost no separation between the foreigners, Hamann was very 'in' with the English crowd, as were the likes of Smicer and Biscan. A team will get you much further than a team of individuals.

Sorry he didn't overplay the inter players, had been their about a month and the injuries began.

Yes Lucas in my opinion was utter balls prior to the 09/10 season when he was starting to come into his own with fantastic performances against mancs, benfica in the second leg, this year against chelsea he was motm by far. Sorry Lucas if superior to carrick, anderson, mikel, diaby. Perhaps no lampard,ballack,essien,mascherano,fabregas, could even mention Song this season although he has been good for weeks, lucas has been good for a lot more than weeks, sorry.

Youth wise, only youth i see setting the world alight are barca ones and perhaps Ramsey/Wilshire.

The results comparison im simply pointing out no coincidence, didn't expect him to have a 60% win percentage with us, but certainly not low 30s.

Yeah he did well against a Barcelona team that had to take what was it like a 12hour bus journey due to the weather to get to inter and put in a lazy performance. Got to the the nou camp and parked the 747 they arrived in infront of the net.
I would agree though that the second leg was completely unfair due to the disgraceful antics of Busquets.

Rafa had a lot of players out at the same time, the only person recognisable in the backline at one point was chivu or lucio and cesar has been out a lot too. Maicon is good, just not in an attacking side, no energy to get back after its all used getting forward and when he does get back seems to mentally tired to defend. I think back to the wall defending im sure he can be good.

As for winning the cups, yep your right, but he joined the club promised 3-4 new signings, was never getting them as massimo cba putting more money into the club after winning what he wanted.

Not going to respond about the teams he inherited, the liverpool one was not very good sorry, team unity can only do so much.
Carragher is a very very hypocritcal man, i wouldn't listen to a word of the ****e he spouts.
telling our fans to **** off against wigan was it?
told rafa '**** off its not my fault you signed ****e' when he asked him to play right back
Along with purslow got himself a nice new shiny contract, got rid of rafa and brought into cptn. face rubber.
Carragher also is you know, perceived as dying for liverpool. On .tv he even said once he becomes a squad player he will leave, hes ONLY a team player when hes in the team and playing the position he wants.

Yes Rafa got it wrong first half in istanbul, but we also had a penalty not given when Nesta blatently handballed it, and they went and put the ball in the net at the other end.
He mastered wins against Chelsea, Juve etc. in his first year of managing a club in england i'd say he didn't do too bad considering we were already in a downward spiral, bit like Roy inherited eh?
Rafa got it right in the end, brought on Didi(took his peno with a broken foot or something ridiculous aswell?), and clearly saw playing Gerrard playing centre mid was a bad idea hence moving him forward in second half and allowing Hamman to take the midfield role.
He also made other tactical decisions such as sticking gerrard on serginho when he came on and he was in Gerrards pocket the entire night.

Houllier would never have won that night, Houllier thought igor biscan could man mark drogba out of a game. Houllier wouldn't even have got that far infact lol.
 
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There was a divide, but Smicer and Biscan weren't in any rivalling factions, he did say this, they were team players, Diao and Diouf etc.. weren't. Particularly Diouf! (no one actually liked him)

Love how Carra tore him apart in the book, something like "It was clear from the first training session that Diouf just wasn't very good, I was amazed to see him on the Team Sheet that weekend" and such good stuff. Pretty much the same with Kewell.

He mentioned that Benitez tried, but not straight away and by that point certain players were alienated from him, but tried their best under him. Pretty much made it clear who he was talking about too (himself and Gerrard.)
 
There was a divide, but Smicer and Biscan weren't in any rivalling factions, he did say this, they were team players, Diao and Diouf etc.. weren't. Particularly Diouf! (no one actually liked him)

Love how Carra tore him apart in the book, something like "It was clear from the first training session that Diouf just wasn't very good, I was amazed to see him on the Team Sheet that weekend" and such good stuff. Pretty much the same with Kewell.

He mentioned that Benitez tried, but not straight away and by that point certain players were alienated from him, but tried their best under him. Pretty much made it clear who he was talking about too (himself and Gerrard.)

Just curious to who you support by the way?

Kewell wasn't/isn't a bad player, riddled with injuries though.
As it stands i know who i'd rather between Rafa and Carragher, Carragher was pretty average under Houllier, wasn't it him who was shocking against Alaves in 2001 aswell when Houllier decided to play him leftback?
Carragher and Gerrard clearly forget what benitez has done for them, especially gerrard, managed to instill some discipline into him. Less of the mouthing of to refs, playing in a role where he could literally go do what he wanted as he isn't suited to a CM in a 4-4-2 and less rash tackles or passes. Only have to look at end of last season when Rafa lost some of the players, no doubt Steve when he played that sublime ball to drogba.
 
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