Rule Britannia or not?

[Blackjack Davy]

He's also considering cutting most of the left wing 'comedy' shows off the BBC.

There won't be anything left will there? (literally and figuratively)

Emmanuel Macron today talking about Charlie Hebdo, ...in France today you have a right to blaspheme.. Art has always been about pushing boundaries, to offend even. No restrictions have ever been put on comedy in recent years. People have tried to sue Private Eye with varying results.

Nobody has a right not to be offended. If you are offended, turn a corner, look the other way or just close your eyes. It did not happen.

Err, except as stated in the same news report free speech is effectively dead in France though because everybody is too scared to say/do anything too controversial in the light of, might end in something unpleasant..

 

[FoxEye]

Foxeye Is there any proof to that claim at all?

From what I heard they have been debating how to handle the proms constantly since March with things changing on a regular basis as information about how the virus spread improved.
I've not seen anything that suggest the BBC even thought about changing the wording, just that they were unsure how to proceed with it at all due to the risks.

IIRC not long before this all blew up the government where telling churches they couldn't have choirs and singing in confined spaces due to the risks - which would sort of suggest the risk assessment for singing with a choir in an opera house for the proms might have been considered too high.I know the BBC had several items about how the performances for other things had been reduced to things like two singers alone on the stage and how that affected their performance/the feel of it and how strange it was for people used to performing in front of a live audience, or at least with the orchestra present and in view as in a normal rehearsal.

Not been following the most recent developments (apart from seeing the headlines). What I'm referring to was the situation a couple weeks back, when they were debating axing those two pieces completely, and there were various articles written at that time, including a bit of self-reporting by the BBC on itself.

Changing the wording or having/not having singers must be more recent stories that I haven't read.

But yeah there was plenty written a couple weeks back when the BBC was seriously considering axing both those pieces. And a lot came out then about it being the "BLM Proms".

What parts of what I wrote are you challenging?

 

[Hagar]

There won't be anything left will there? (literally and figuratively)



Err, except as stated in the same news report free speech is effectively dead in France though because everybody is too scared to say/do anything too controversial in the light of, might end in something unpleasant..

Except Charlie Hebdo are reprinting the controversial cartoons.

It is a crime to make free speech scary or expensive to do.

 

[jpaul]

I've not seen anything that suggest the BBC even thought about changing the wording

as said, issue was broached in public - last year eg.

Probably a much bigger audience than LNATP, but, this tesco advert the other night, racist stereotyping ?
coke are currently showing a similar one but can't see that on youtube
Tesco Mobile | Unbox More | Advert

 

[stockhausen]

Not been following the most recent developments (apart from seeing the headlines). What I'm referring to was the situation a couple weeks back, when they were debating axing those two pieces completely, and there were various articles written at that time, including a bit of self-reporting by the BBC on itself.

Changing the wording or having/not having singers must be more recent stories that I haven't read.

But yeah there was plenty written a couple weeks back when the BBC was seriously considering axing both those pieces. And a lot came out then about it being the "BLM Proms".

What parts of what I wrote are you challenging?

I think that most of what you have written here is in your imagination.

I am quite sure that that some people with an agenda will have "speculated" on the BBC dropping or rewriting Rule, Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory; that doesn't make it true.

 

[FoxEye]

I think that most of what you have written here is in your imagination.

I am quite sure that that some people with an agenda will have "speculated" on the BBC dropping or rewriting Rule, Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory; that doesn't make it true.

I'm not going to dig it out because frankly you're not worth the effort, but the BBC itself wrote an article about the debate whether to drop them or not.

LOL. If you search it's probably still there.

 

[Werewolf]

Not been following the most recent developments (apart from seeing the headlines). What I'm referring to was the situation a couple weeks back, when they were debating axing those two pieces completely, and there were various articles written at that time, including a bit of self-reporting by the BBC on itself.

Changing the wording or having/not having singers must be more recent stories that I haven't read.

But yeah there was plenty written a couple weeks back when the BBC was seriously considering axing both those pieces. And a lot came out then about it being the "BLM Proms".

What parts of what I wrote are you challenging?

IIRC they were considering axing it because it would be very lacklustre compared to what it is normally, and IIRC they were talking about that as part of an "everything on the table" discussion where they were discussing every option for the line up.
It's a little like planning a long car journey for a holiday when your gran is ill, you'll be talking about everything from cancelling it if granny dies, to making sure you've got a spare tyre/tyre weld, and some wet weather gear in case you get a puncture or the weather is bad.

This is "normal" contingency planning, it'll be along the same lines of them discussing what to do if some of the performers are ill, or say (in other years) they'd got a guest booked who was flying in but there was an ATC strike, or plans for what to do if the primary link to the central uplink facility goes down or the IRA phone in a credible bomb threat
Hell they'll still have a backup plan now for if any of the singers has a heart attack 15 minutes before the start, or if half the brass section of the orchestra has to be quarantine because a couple of them test positive for covid (one of the reasons live tv especially concerts/plays/sports are complicated is they try to have a plan for everything that could affect it, and is reasonably likely)

I don't think this is anything new, or was a big secret, I know they were talking about how different the proms would be this year, and how they were having to keep updating things a couple of months ago, on the BBC news channel.

 

[Deleted member 68110]

Couple for Gerbnett to have a memory revival.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/25/us/too-many-white-men/index.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....annel-4-white-people-ofcom-investigation/amp/

So which of these are you claiming is an advert with only white people in it?

Oh dear someone has the knickers in a twist today. #face palm.

Are you being serious ?

You have this high horse position and self proclaimed intellect, however you seem totally inept at seeing actual events that have on numerous occasions backed what I have stated. Not just myself either. Maybe it’s your turn to “learn” something. Maybe question your ideology on the world. Because the tide is moving.

Do you not remember last year when they had a cabinet picture in the news with mostly white people. It was massively criticised. I’ll have a dig for you.

You just had to write "C"

Do you really lack the critical thinking to recognise government cabinets and protest crowds are not the same thing as adverts?

Serious question: which university taught you that you could equate these things?

 

[jpaul]

Given the prior BLM protests/violence GrannyAuntie/proms organisers, would have considered Britannia protests as a high probability issue,
with their u turn now, they have gained the support of Boris their benevolent sponsor. Trump too ? I'm sure he watches lnatp.
May be interesting to see if any of the proms participants take exception to this decision, didn't use to be any such thing as a free lunch.

youguv survey tomorrow, place your bets.

 

[ubersonic]

I don't even think those lyrics were to be taken literally, I view them as meaning we'll never be slaves to tyranny, not that the entire country won't be taken as actual slaves.

Somewhat literally.

It was basically a boastful proclamation that we have the best navy now so our island shall never be enslaved again, you have to remember that at the time it was written Britain had only relatively recently become one of the big world powers, prior to that we had always been that sad little island that you conquer to show everyone your a world power. In the centuries prior to the empire we had African slavers coming over to brag some people, then the Romans coming over to enslave/conquer us, then the Saxons coming over to enslave/conquer us, then the Vikings coming over to enslave/partially conquer us, then we had the Normans coming over to conquer us.

 

[robfosters]

Somewhat literally.

It was basically a boastful proclamation that we have the best navy now so our island shall never be enslaved again, you have to remember that at the time it was written Britain had only relatively recently become one of the big world powers, prior to that we had always been that sad little island that you conquer to show everyone your a world power. In the centuries prior to the empire we had African slavers coming over to brag some people, then the Romans coming over to enslave/conquer us, then the Saxons coming over to enslave/conquer us, then the Vikings coming over to enslave/partially conquer us, then we had the Normans coming over to conquer us.

Accurate boast though, nearly 300 years later and we’re still unenslaved. We’ve defeated some of the worlds most powerful forces and leaders such as as Napoleon, The Kaiser and Hitler. Let’s give ourselves and the brave hundreds and thousands of heroes who have given their lives to achieve this some credit.

 

[Hagar]

Somewhat literally.

It was basically a boastful proclamation that we have the best navy now so our island shall never be enslaved again, you have to remember that at the time it was written Britain had only relatively recently become one of the big world powers, prior to that we had always been that sad little island that you conquer to show everyone your a world power. In the centuries prior to the empire we had African slavers coming over to brag some people, then the Romans coming over to enslave/conquer us, then the Saxons coming over to enslave/conquer us, then the Vikings coming over to enslave/partially conquer us, then we had the Normans coming over to conquer us.

African slavers (ie Arabs) probably were raiding west Wales and Cornwall up until 600 - 700 AD, the Romans had left by 400 AD. Saxon and norse invasions took place also up until the ninth century. So after the Norman invasion in the 11th century we have not had a mainland invasion since.
As the empire is deemed to have got going in East Asia, the Americas and Africa after 1600 AD, there was a significant period where we were not a sad little island. In fact for a goodly period in that time England owned half of France.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Good to see those far right patriots blocking Dover docks singing Rule Britania. Fills me with pride.

Also good to not see the Tories or others from the right wings coming out and condeming them. Thats what England is all about.

 

[stockhausen]

Accurate boast though, nearly 300 years later and we’re still unenslaved. We’ve defeated some of the worlds most powerful forces and leaders such as as Napoleon, The Kaiser and Hitler. . . .

Absolutely true.

As you say, plucky Little Englanders defeated Napoleon (with a little help from the Russians), defeated the Kaiser (with a little bit of help from the French and the Americans and despite being led by Donkeys) and defeated Hitler, with a great deal of help from the Americans, the Russians, the Australians, the Canadians, the New Zealenders, the Indians, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Hagar]

Absolutely true.

As you say, plucky Little Englanders defeated Napoleon (with a little help from the Russians), defeated the Kaiser (with a little bit of help from the French and the Americans and despite being led by Donkeys) and defeated Hitler, with a great deal of help from the Americans, the Russians, the Australians, the Canadians, the New Zealenders, the Indians, etc., etc., etc.

Yes agreed, we had all that help (eventually the Americans pitched in in 1942), but you would have thought that Hitler only being 22 miles away should have managed the last bit? However he stood us up and Britain did keep him off our shores, largely by our magnificent armed services efforts and we going massively into debt in the process.

 

[stockhausen]

Tomorrow (Saturday) night is the last night of the BBC Radio 3 Proms 2020 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e3pd2m

Aside form your having the opportunity to sing along to "Land of hope and glory", "Rule, Britannia", "Jerusalem" and England's premier Football team's anthem "You'll never walk alone" you will also get the chance to hear Nicola Benedetti playing Vaughan Williams' absolutely amazing "Lark Ascending"

Despite the sad lack of an auditorium filled with enthusiastic concert-goers It will be a quite fantastic evening - DON'T MISS IT!

 

[robfosters]

They did a superb job in the circumstances, and they sang the lyrics with no compromise. Just as it should be. Quality

RULE BRITANNIA!!?

 

[McstylisT]

They did a superb job in the circumstances, and they sang the lyrics with no compromise. Just as it should be. Quality

RULE BRITANNIA!!?

Excellent. As it should always be sung.

#RULE BRITANNIA !!!!

 

[stockhausen]

They did a superb job in the circumstances . . .

Agreed, "They did a superb job in the circumstances". Still disappointing

Excellent. As it should always be sung. . . .

What? With a reduced choir and no audience?


There have been some excellent Proms over the past two weeks but not many of them stand comparison with the recordings of some past Proms that have been broadcast during the season. Nothing compares with a full Oorchestra and/or choir.

Nicola Benedetti's performance of Vaughan Williams' Lark Ascending was undoubtedly the highlight last night - the Fantasia on British Sea-Songs was better than expected - the conductor was wooden and disappointing but perhaps that was a result of not being inspired by Promenaders?

I am sure that the BBC Radio 3 Proms 2021 will be back to supreme standard . . . HOPEFULLY!

 

[jpaul]

if you heard the BBC r4 news report, intentional or not, they faded the song out, just before ... maybe it's always been too long as a sound-bite.

choir - thought the men would in front of the women they probably project further ... did they all take precautionary tests ... or, like football teams?

choir doesn't have any coloured representation , but seems that is not unique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sERiPuOQyvo