Rumour: Spectre-NG, 8 Critical Vulnerabilities Detected in Intel CPUs

ltron · 5 May 2018 at 11:35

String said:
Absolutely agree, but I'm a hardware nut and I'm looking to buy some new shiny. I'm really just making the point that it's not the best of times to be buying CPUs.

Maybe Ryzen is not affected, let's wait and see.

Dirk Diggler · 5 May 2018 at 12:47

ltron said:
Maybe Ryzen is not affected, let's wait and see.

I think Ryzen has it's own separate issues, also. 2700x not holding default clock speeds and also the 1000 series had heaps of issues. I think AMD get a bit of a free pass because they're bringing competition back into the CPU space again, which is great. However, I'm not looking for endless headaches with security vulnerabilities and subsequent patches affecting performance... and in AMD's case issues trying to get the basics right like default clock speed and rated RAM timing to work.

The CPU market is evolving right now, and it's definitely moving in the right direction. For end users like myself who already have up to date systems and am really looking to upgrade out of enthusiasm as opposed to "need", it's a bit frustrating trying to decide which way to go... especially with absolute zero brand loyalty.

ltron · 5 May 2018 at 13:55

String said:
I think Ryzen has it's own separate issues, also. 2700x not holding default clock speeds and also the 1000 series had heaps of issues. I think AMD get a bit of a free pass because they're bringing competition back into the CPU space again, which is great. However, I'm not looking for endless headaches with security vulnerabilities and subsequent patches affecting performance... and in AMD's case issues trying to get the basics right like default clock speed and rated RAM timing to work.

The CPU market is evolving right now, and it's definitely moving in the right direction. For end users like myself who already have up to date systems and am really looking to upgrade out of enthusiasm as opposed to "need", it's a bit frustrating trying to decide which way to go... especially with absolute zero brand loyalty.

I've not heard any mention of the 2700X not holding its default clock speed and as far as I know most of issues around Ryzen have now been fixed. You have to remember that the CPU's IMC plays a key role in determining what memory will run and anything over 2933MHz in Ryzen 2's case is overclocking and hence not guaranteed. It's a pity Ryzen is so RAM speed and latency sensitive.

nashathedog · 5 May 2018 at 14:17

String said:
Absolutely agree, but I'm a hardware nut and I'm looking to buy some new shiny. I'm really just making the point that it's not the best of times to be buying CPUs.

You're right, These questions about security & patched performance certainly sour things & it's a shame as Ryzen's made it a great time for users of both Intel and AMD.
Once they've solved those issues & Intel bring a mainstream 8 core to the table to compete with Ryzen you can make a well informed decision & grab some great hardware, The question is by the time Intel give us the bug fixes & an 8 core how far away will the next Ryzen range be?

The 8 core Coffee cpu will undoubtedly perform better than a 2700x so I imagine that'll be the enthusiasts choice if pricing's not an issue.

nashathedog · 5 May 2018 at 14:33

String said:
I think Ryzen has it's own separate issues, also. 2700x not holding default clock speeds

ltron said:
I've not heard any mention of the 2700X not holding its default clock speed and as far as I know most of issues around Ryzen have now been fixed.

I'm unable to run my 3200mhz memory any higher than 3000mhz with the 2700x, Any faster and both games & benches crash, I didn't have an issue with ram speeds when I was using the 1600x.

David Bisset · 5 May 2018 at 14:38

So you're not running within spec then as that's an overclock. Shame it won't run, sounds like you're unlucky, but to claim ryzens has problems at rated speeds based off this is inaccurate.

ltron · 5 May 2018 at 14:48

nashathedog said:
I'm unable to run my 3200mhz memory any higher than 3000mhz with the 2700x, Any faster and both games & benches crash, I didn't have an issue with ram speeds when I was using the 1600x.

My brother can't run his 3200MHz RAM any higher than 3066 on his Ryzen 1600 no matter the voltage without the same things happening. It's luck of the draw unfortunately.

Destination · 6 May 2018 at 08:30

Indeed and neither is rated for that ram anyway.
The ram might be rated to the soeed but the processor isnt rated to run with it.
Most do, yours doesnt, unfortunate.

Dirk Diggler · 6 May 2018 at 08:57

Destination said:
Most do, yours doesnt, unfortunate

It's comments like that, and I see them a lot, that leads me to say this...

String said:
I think AMD get a bit of a free pass because they're bringing competition back into the CPU space again

Destination · 6 May 2018 at 10:38

String said:
It's comments like that, and I see them a lot, that leads me to say this...

Which is why i qualified it by stating that the chipset and the processor do NOT claim to supportthe RAm speeds that people want to throw at it?

If I had ram rated at 6000, I wouldn't expect that to work. People seem to expect 3466 to work, because some others got lucky and got it to work.
It isn't easy on AMD at all, it isn't supported, they never claimed it.
Like expecting intel not to change chipset for every processor line. They won't claim it. It's unlikely to work.

Dirk Diggler · 6 May 2018 at 11:54

Destination said:
Which is why i qualified it by stating that the chipset and the processor do NOT claim to supportthe RAm speeds that people want to throw at it?

If I had ram rated at 6000, I wouldn't expect that to work. People seem to expect 3466 to work, because some others got lucky and got it to work.
It isn't easy on AMD at all, it isn't supported, they never claimed it.
Like expecting intel not to change chipset for every processor line. They won't claim it. It's unlikely to work.

That's not really an accurate analogy in my opinion. It's more like expecting all 6700k processors to hit above 4.2Ghz or indeed a 5930k to hit above 3.7Ghz (I've had 3 of them, and all hit 4.4Ghz without issue). These speeds aren't advertised, but they're an expectation on Intel because they are K chips after all. Similarly, AMD have B350 and X370 but the same expectation doesn't seem to be allocated to the X370 line.

nashathedog · 6 May 2018 at 13:01

David Bisset said:
So you're not running within spec then as that's an overclock. Shame it won't run, sounds like you're unlucky, but to claim ryzens has problems at rated speeds based off this is inaccurate.

My Ryzen 1600x was used on the same motherboard with the same memory in the same PC, All I did was update my motherboards bio's and replace the 1600x with the 2700x. My memory is the 3200mhz 14-14-14-31 stuff sold here at OCUK. https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08l-tg.html

The 2700x are supposed to be the better binned 8 cores that also have an improved memory controller, AMD told us this so if it can't run the memory at the same docp settings the memory worked with the 1600x at I'd say there's a problem. It may be that another bio's update is needed for the motherboard I won't know until it comes or doesn't. But either way the memory not running how it did with the last gen Ryzen means something's wrong.

ltron · 6 May 2018 at 14:51

nashathedog said:
My Ryzen 1600x was used on the same motherboard with the same memory in the same PC, All I did was update my motherboards bio's and replace the 1600x with the 2700x. My memory is the 3200mhz 14-14-14-31 stuff sold here at OCUK. https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08l-tg.html

The 2700x are supposed to be the better binned 8 cores that also have an improved memory controller, AMD told us this so if it can't run the memory at the same docp settings the memory worked with the 1600x at I'd say there's a problem. It may be that another bio's update is needed for the motherboard I won't know until it comes or doesn't. But either way the memory not running how it did with the last gen Ryzen means something's wrong.

It means you got a very good Ryzen 1600X and probably a below average 2700X. When AMD say the IMC is improved they mean on average, they do no not mean that all Ryzen 2700Xs will be better than any Ryzen 1. There are exceptional Ryzen 1s that can do DDR 4 3600 MHz.

nashathedog · 6 May 2018 at 15:19

ltron said:
It means you got a very good Ryzen 1600X and probably a below average 2700X. When AMD say the IMC is improved they mean on average, they do no not mean that all Ryzen 2700Xs will be better than any Ryzen 1. There are exceptional Ryzen 1s that can do DDR 4 3600 MHz.

I'm not expecting better and I'm not convinced it's the chip either.

chroniclard · 6 May 2018 at 15:25

Expect there are quite a few factors regarding Ryzen and memory. Its certainly a bit of a fiddler to get right and there are far too many having issues. Saying that have managed to get mine to run 14-14-14-28 @ 3333(though is it 3366 with 101 bclk....)

Would your average home user/gamer apply these patches? Are they going to be mandatory? Interesting to see performance results when patched.

Hotwired · 6 May 2018 at 16:07

String said:
That's not really an accurate analogy in my opinion. It's more like expecting all 6700k processors to hit above 4.2Ghz or indeed a 5930k to hit above 3.7Ghz (I've had 3 of them, and all hit 4.4Ghz without issue). These speeds aren't advertised, but they're an expectation on Intel because they are K chips after all. Similarly, AMD have B350 and X370 but the same expectation doesn't seem to be allocated to the X370 line.

This is some highly suspect thinking.

You're saying that AMD should live up to your expectations when you run products out of spec.

Memory is an especially dodgy thing to complain about since it is unreliable to the point of tables of compatibility being produced as proof that they can do X speed when paired with X cpu and X motherboard.

Dirk Diggler · 6 May 2018 at 16:17

Hotwired said:
This is some highly suspect thinking.

You're saying that AMD should live up to your expectations when you run products out of spec.

Memory is an especially dodgy thing to complain about since it is unreliable to the point of tables of compatibility being produced as proof that they can do X speed when paired with X cpu and X motherboard.

That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm comparing the expectations on Intel against the expectations on AMD and I'm pointing out that they appear to be different.

As for memory, every Intel chip I've had (and I've had a few) have required a simple toggle in the BIOS for XMP settings and away you go. Try that with Ryzen.

David Bisset · 6 May 2018 at 17:00

I personally don't use XMP as it limits overclocking options but have seen it not work on plenty Intel based systems with weaker imcs too so think you have just been lucky. Yes, max mem frequencies on best Intel options is higher if that's what you mean?!? Otherwise you seem to confuse variance in overclocking with something else.

Destination · 6 May 2018 at 20:57

String said:
That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm comparing the expectations on Intel against the expectations on AMD and I'm pointing out that they appear to be different.

As for memory, every Intel chip I've had (and I've had a few) have required a simple toggle in the BIOS for XMP settings and away you go. Try that with Ryzen.

Rubbish. You are not.
You are comparing out of spec analysis, and finding fault with AMD.

Dirk Diggler · 6 May 2018 at 21:04