Russians get a bit nosey..

I think what we're seeing here is a slow closing of the Iron Curtain. Putin is the last player in the show that has been Perestroika for the last 20 years.

The sovs have made incredible upgrades to their nuclear capabilities and technology - they used to have rockets that couldn't hit a continent let alone a small target - by opening up and allowing western technology in. They now have taken full advantage of that technology and are ready to play with a level playing field against the western nuclear technology.

They've been playing a game with the west, a game that started with Reagan and Gorbachev signing the INF and finishes with China paying for the best seats in the house and jumping into bed with the bear.

With the pretence of wanting to open up the former USSR to the west no longer necessary the sovs and china have started exercising together and sharing military capability; we will see a gradual return to cold war struggle that'll make the difficulties and tensions of the 1960-1985 era seem trifling by comparison.

If you have a spade - dig that nuclear shelter now. My belief is that the age of nuclear holocaust has never gone away - not even for an instant. Russia and America still detest one another - both from a political and ideological point of view.

The short term Middle East debacles have given both powers the excuse to upgrade strategic nuclear capability whilst maintaining the pretence of international cooperation for the overthrow/ policing of the common enemy.

In short – it’s about to kick off big time again.

These are the first few starters for ten.

John le Carré wouldn’t have thought of this one….
 
As for the Russian military; restructuring and real increases in budgets have continued unabated for years now, and their recent joint exercise with the Chinese has proved their (albeit limited) ability to project their power.
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Real increases? More like attempts to close the funding gap that developed when the Soviet Union collapsed. All these major reforms and major investments are not designed to increase the capabilities of the Red Army ( :p ), they are aimed at maintaining current combat readiness when the old/ancient stuff starts falling apart.

Investment into new nuclear missiles is aimed at replacing the thousands of rusting/unusable ones, investments into the navy are aimed at maintaining a navy as the current boats are all ready to fall apart, same for the air force.

Russia is not "rebuilding" - they are replacing old junk with more up-to-date toys to keep their combat readiness the same.
 
Wang Computer said:
In what way?
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Bit of reading here although we are told the parameters in which they flew the sorties did not make them equal pegging. The general consensus amongst the knowledgeable back at base is that the SU-30 is the finest fighter in the world.

Anyway we're OT :D
 
Hxc said:
Got to agree there. The SU-30s could dominate the Tornados in the air, but the Typhoons? I'm not so sure.
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All I'll say is be grateful the RAF consist of some of the most experienced and able pilots in the world.
 
I cant see any major super power ever using nuclear weapons. Even they must realise there is no winning a nuclear war or any benefits from using them.

Terrorist on the other hand :eek:
 
Captain Planet said:
Bit of reading here although we are told the parameters in which they flew the sorties did not make them equal pegging. The general consensus amongst the knowledgeable back at base is that the SU-30 is the finest fighter in the world.

Anyway we're OT :D
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Finer than the F-22? That's very unlikely...

I've read that article before. The ambiguous admission that the SU-30MKI has "superior manoeuvring in the air" doesn't necessarily equate to it being a superior weapon. Agility is considered almost irrelevant in today's air combat theatres and there are many areas in which the Typhoon's technology is far ahead of anything the Russians/Indians could manage.

I've never been a big fan of the Typhoon, but credit where it’s due, and if and when the tranche 3 production aircraft receives its own thrust vectoring engines (which is how the SU-30 achieves its superior low speed manoeuvrability), the Flanker’s advantage will be effectively destroyed.
 
Captain Planet said:
They are, but the Russian built SU-30's are superior :)
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More aerodynamic airframe granted, but I don't believe for a second that the SU-30 is a more dangerous opponent than the Typhoon. Don't forget even in the latest Russian Aircraft the avionics are still a good 10 years behind their western equivalents.

Also modern air combat comes down to beyond visual range capabilities where Western developments are also very much state of the art and Soviet stuff is still playing catchup.
 
fanger said:
If you have a spade - dig that nuclear shelter now. My belief is that the age of nuclear holocaust has never gone away - not even for an instant. Russia and America still detest one another - both from a political and ideological point of view.

The short term Middle East debacles have given both powers the excuse to upgrade strategic nuclear capability whilst maintaining the pretence of international cooperation for the overthrow/ policing of the common enemy.

In short – it’s about to kick off big time again.

These are the first few starters for ten.

John le Carré wouldn’t have thought of this one….
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Isn't it only our governments who show questionable or even aggressive behaviour though?

If the people don't want this sort of stupidity to go on then why should we allow it, almost all the worlds problems are caused by the people in power, yet time and time again we see this sort of rubbish appear, i would hope we're actually moving on now but the usa has been the real one stirring most of the trouble for years now and its really got to stop.
 
Why do you guys all think that the western stuff is SO much more advanced than the Russian stuff?

One of the main reasons the F-22 hasn't been deployed yet is because it has been matched by Russian fighters therefore they'd waste money putting them into service. Sure it has advanced computer systems that handle all the jigerry pokery, but it's no match for a Su-30 in a dogfight. As for modern long range targeting systems being a western only thing... get real :p
 
LizardKing said:
I cant see any major super power ever using nuclear weapons. Even they must realise there is no winning a nuclear war or any benefits from using them.
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Well the yanks have dropped 2 in the past, and the use of tactical nuclear weapons (not strategic) was down to theatre commanders in cold war europe.
 
Zefan said:
Why do you guys all think that the western stuff is SO much more advanced than the Russian stuff?

One of the main reasons the F-22 hasn't been deployed yet is because it has been matched by Russian fighters therefore they'd waste money putting them into service. Sure it has advanced computer systems that handle all the jigerry pokery, but it's no match for a Su-30 in a dogfight. As for modern long range targeting systems being a western only thing... get real :p
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The F-22 has been deployed to the 27th, 90th and 94th fighter squadron - that's three operational fighter squadrons.

The F-22 has come out on top on all think-tank, simulator and real-world exercises. Doubts were raised about its cost effectiveness, as the cheaper Typhoon and Rafale operated at about 20% less, but also at a fraction of the price.
 
Am I right in thinking that the Russian planes were/are built using technology such as valves etc to minimise the risk of damage from EMF measures? The thinking being that "old" technology would last better than a uber-spicy plane that was as risk of disabling?
 
Just flicked through a bit more of the thread;

The Bear is actually a maritime patrol aircraft, not disimilar in function from our Maritime nimrods. Tehy can carry sonobouys, depthcharges, torpedoes etc etc, while you may look at it and assume its rubbish because its prop-driven. other than being a little slower than similar sized aircraft, its really no less vunerable - these planes all pack modern electronics and jammers etc. A nimrod verses a eurofighter would loose just as quickly as a bear once in visual range.

Russia's coldwar strategy in case things got hot - was standard combined arms backed up by smaller higher tech forces - don't think they're are technically inferior. Some article came to light after Americas arms build up of the eighties, following the introduction of the M1 abrams which at the time was a major step forward for tank design (for the yanks at least). A general just stood there and said it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if there was a war - an Abrams it was estimated could destroy something like 4 enemy tanks for every Abrams knocked out, the only problem was - the reds had 5 or 6.

Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, millions of tonnes of hardware was simply abandoned on huge bases through Russia. Over the last 6 years or so with Russias rather succsessful recovery of their armed forces (disertion is dropping - pay is increasing) suddenly they've found they've got stacks of conventional military kit thats actually in pretty good order. 60 tonnes of tank back then is not much different from 60 tonnes of tank now - all thats really changed is the electronics (fundamentally) - and Russia is excellent at producing, lenses, rangfinders, complex electronics etc. Russian military kit was generally slightly less advanced - in order to reduce costs as everything could be produced on larger scales, but its all tough, hardwaring and easy to repair modify and change. Potentially with modern electronics (which russia already has) they still have huge armoured forces that would be more than effective in anywar with a bit of preparation.

I think its far to easy to assume Russia is technically inferior to us, back in the coldwar if we thought we could win easily it probably would have kicked off, but we couldn't then - whats changed now? Ok Russia had 9-12 years of poor performance but considering how much they've still managed to achieve and their recent found wealth in terms of Oil/gas (not to mention mineral deposits in the largely un-explored Siberia.) I think Russia is in a better position than the yanks in the long run (China next door, phyically close to Asian emerging markets, high technology, greater quantity of potential phyical wealth).

I don't think its all bad either, I've met very few Americans I like, they all seem a bit fake, just a little something they have. The Russians I've met just get straight to the point - and if they don't like you - you know it!


/pointless stuff
 
m@rty said:
why not serious?

also what if one of these planes crashed while it carried a nuke... i mean they are 50 year old planes.
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The Nuke wouldn't blow up. Maybe some radioactivity spread around, but it wouldn't hit critical mass.
 
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