Incredible luck really, unless there is a reason they keep that row empty.
Ryanair buys 75 737 Max
- Thread starter nam
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Incredible luck really, unless there is a reason they keep that row empty.
Nice to see a Jean-F anecdote.
Commissario
From what I've read, and the little I understand, they did a merger and basically acquired all the bad habits and management of the company they acquired (which was failing), and ended up with basically non technical people running the show rather than management who actually understood and in many cases had engineering experience.
Effectively the moved from being a company with a high level of technical and aviation understanding in management, to being one that is largely being run by accountants and business execs who don't understand/care about the reasons certain things were done despite being expensive.
The 737 max was basically the first "new" aircraft to come out after that changeover was largely complete, hence so many of the cut corners and decisions that make even non pilots/non engineers who have paid any attention to aircraft go "WHAT?" and "How the hell did they forget 90 years of hard won lessons!".
You see the same sort of thing in some other industries (modern cars with "touch screen" displays that give no tactile feedback), but with 300+ people at risk every time something utterly predictable goes wrong.
Soldato
Had quick Google and this interesting article was one of the first hits -
The 1997 merger that paved the way for the Boeing 737 Max crisis
Only now, with the plane indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects.
qz.com
Always remember the day I was flying on a BA Airbus A321 (this is going back probably around 15-20 years) and was sitting in the exit row near the back (not the ones at the back) which had a crewmember sitting there as well for takeoff and landing. Taking off the plastics on the inside of the plane are making a bit of racket (probably rubbing at the joins between the panels, and the cabin crew said to me, 'you wouldn't get that in a Boeing'. How times have changed.
The airline that had this issue today has returned some of the grounded jets to the air already.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564.amp
Hopefully this because they have checked everything and are happy that they are safe and hopefully other airlines will be checking properly as well.
We have flown with Ryanair a lot because often they are the only airline going where and when we want to go, they don’t seem to cancel many flights or get too delayed much and supposedly are cheap. I always try to remember that they have never had an accident with deaths and hope that continues. We are due to fly next week on a rebooked flight after easyJet cancelled on us (again!) I have not been on a 737 Max yet but if they are replacing all the 737 800s it will probably happen one day
I hope an 800 turns up next week, preferably with the newer thinner seats as then there is slightly more leg space (but still a squeeze)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564.amp
Hopefully this because they have checked everything and are happy that they are safe and hopefully other airlines will be checking properly as well.
We have flown with Ryanair a lot because often they are the only airline going where and when we want to go, they don’t seem to cancel many flights or get too delayed much and supposedly are cheap. I always try to remember that they have never had an accident with deaths and hope that continues. We are due to fly next week on a rebooked flight after easyJet cancelled on us (again!) I have not been on a 737 Max yet but if they are replacing all the 737 800s it will probably happen one day
I hope an 800 turns up next week, preferably with the newer thinner seats as then there is slightly more leg space (but still a squeeze)
Commissario
That's quite possibly one of the articles I read a couple of years back, IIRC there were a whole slate of them including some that had interviews with ex boeing staff who'd done things like take early retirement as they didn't want to be involved with the new management.Had quick Google and this interesting article was one of the first hits -
The 1997 merger that paved the way for the Boeing 737 Max crisis
Only now, with the plane indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects.
Soldato
The FAA have grounded some models of the 737 Max 9
Yep, I remember reading quite a bit about this period in Boeing's history too, with one of them saying "Boeing will fail because it is no longer run by engineers, it's run by accountants and corners are being cut" or something to that effect.
Seems his prediction is slowly coming true.
Edit- something like this:
The Long-Forgotten Flight That Sent Boeing Off Course
A company once driven by engineers became driven by finance.
www.theatlantic.com
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Commissario
I suspect the fire suppression system wouldn't have done anything but slow any fire and given that fire was external there is little that any "system" could have done to slow it, instead it was relying on the materials used in construction and they seemed to hold up quite well given what happened.
AFAIK no aircraft has a particularly good fire suppression system as the weight is too much and it carries it's own risks, so they tend to have systems for the engines and cargo bay (using something that's not great for humans), and some portable extinguishers in the cabin areas.
The general approach to fires on aircraft is that you hope you don't have them, you design to avoid them, you take what steps you can with fire equipment in the most likely areas, and if you do get one you get on the ground as fast as possible even if it just appears to be a small one.
From what I saw of the Japanese airlines one the other day it looked like it actually faired better than some of the more "traditionally" constructed aircraft despite the size of the "initial" fire.
Soldato
Just to clarify - The A350 is the first civilian aircraft with a cargo hold fire suppression system for the area directly under the passenger cabin which uses Halon gas as its suppressant. It looks like it was the A350's central fuel tank which seems to have ruptured in the immediate aftermath and that Halon system (if used TBF) may have kept any internal fire in the cargo bay (right below peoples feet) pushed back for about a minute (looking at the cabin videos post landing) before it was overcome, by which time most passengers were out.
Airbus have a whole webpage devoted to its new A350 cargo bay fire suppressing system -
safetyfirst.airbus.com
Airbus have a whole webpage devoted to its new A350 cargo bay fire suppressing system -
Protecting Aircraft and Passengers from Cargo Fires | Safety First
Cargo compartment linings are designed to provide an air-tight space, and are essential in protecting the aircraft and its occupants from fire and smoke.This article looks at how these composite components have come to play such an important role in Safety, and what can be done to make sure they...
Just to clarify - The A350 is the first civilian aircraft with a cargo hold fire suppression system for the area directly under the passenger cabin which uses Halon gas as its suppressant. It looks like it was the A350's central fuel tank which seems to have ruptured in the immediate aftermath and that Halon system (if used TBF) may have kept any internal fire in the cargo bay (right below peoples feet) pushed back for about a minute (looking at the cabin videos post landing) before it was overcome, by which time most passengers were out.
Airbus have a whole webpage devoted to its new A350 cargo bay fire suppressing system -
Protecting Aircraft and Passengers from Cargo Fires | Safety First
Cargo compartment linings are designed to provide an air-tight space, and are essential in protecting the aircraft and its occupants from fire and smoke.This article looks at how these composite components have come to play such an important role in Safety, and what can be done to make sure they...
All civilian aircraft I'm familiar with have halon fire suppression in the belly holds, I thought it was pretty standard to be honest. Also, unless the A350 has an automatic fire suppression system I suspect it was unlikely to have been used.
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Soldato
It was after watching that Netflix documentary on the Boeing and now with this that made me make my mind up that from now on it'll be safer for me to fly Aeroflot...
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Soldato
Reminds me of a kid I went to school with, who was always banging on about the DC-10.
en.m.wikipedia.org
McDonnell Douglas DC-10 - Wikipedia
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This is alarming:
Alaska Airlines placed restrictions on the Boeing plane involved in a dramatic mid-air blowout after pressurisation warnings in the days before Friday's incident, investigators say.
I really would have thought they would have grounded it until an explanation was found...
Alaska Airlines plane had warnings days before mid-air blowout
The jet involved in Friday's incident had been prevented from long trips over water, US investigators say.
www.bbc.co.uk
Alaska Airlines placed restrictions on the Boeing plane involved in a dramatic mid-air blowout after pressurisation warnings in the days before Friday's incident, investigators say.
I really would have thought they would have grounded it until an explanation was found...
This is alarming:
Alaska Airlines plane had warnings days before mid-air blowout
The jet involved in Friday's incident had been prevented from long trips over water, US investigators say.www.bbc.co.uk
Alaska Airlines placed restrictions on the Boeing plane involved in a dramatic mid-air blowout after pressurisation warnings in the days before Friday's incident, investigators say.
I really would have thought they would have grounded it until an explanation was found...
Eek, I bet the maintenance team are having a squeaky bum moment.