Ryzen 5800x 87c in Cinebench...

Vogon · 11 Nov 2020 at 15:45

I have undervolted thanks to this thread https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...-all-cores-with-amd-curve-optimizer.18906071/
I have in the region of 0.2v under which is as much as I can go stable, 0.25 worked for around an hour stress test then fell over.
I think its the chip density as you say, thermals seem just as dependant on clock speeds as far as I can tell.

Does the 3800xt have the same layout ?

Vogon · 12 Nov 2020 at 08:35

To answer my question the 3700/3800's look to have the same layout but they look to have similar temps to 3600 and 3900 ?

UK_SPAWN · 12 Nov 2020 at 08:38

Vogon said:
To answer my question the 3700/3800's look to have the same layout but they look to have similar temps to 3600 and 3900 ?

3600 is also 1 die in the same position. the only ones with 2 dies are 3900 and 3950.

ubasti · 12 Nov 2020 at 10:05

Here's an obvious one I fell slightly foul of (apologies if it doesn't apply or has already been covered).

When I pre-bought my mothereboard a few weeks ago to I updated the bios using flashback to support Zen 3. When I received my 5900x and built the machine on Friday I neglected to check whether there'd been any revisions since then and ran the pc using AGESA revision A or B (not sure which). I subsequently realised there had been another update at launch and updated my bios to revision C. This definitely dropped my idle temperatures a few degress, presumably through better voltage management.

Mesai · 12 Nov 2020 at 10:10

ubasti said:
Here's an obvious one I fell slightly foul of (apologies if it doesn't apply or has already been covered).

When I pre-bought my mothereboard a few weeks ago to I updated the bios using flashback to support Zen 3. When I received my 5900x and built the machine on Friday I neglected to check whether there'd been any revisions since then and ran the pc using AGESA revision A or B (not sure which). I subsequently realised there had been another update at launch and updated my bios to revision C. This definitely dropped my idle temperatures a few degress, presumably through better voltage management.

The bios definitely seems to play a role in this, so I can only imagine that it's going to improve from day one temp. They released quite late so I can only imagine that they weren't thoroughly tested.

Chewie · 12 Nov 2020 at 17:09

No problem to report with mine.

Just installed it with an Artic Liquid Freezer II 280, it idles around 30-31°C and when running Cinebench R20 sessions maxes out around 78-79°C.

PinkFloyd · 12 Nov 2020 at 17:27

Remounted my heatsink earlier and swapped to a different thermal paste after I found some Noctua NT-H1 (was previously using AS-5). Temps seem to be a few degrees better at a guess, idle with nothing running after the system has been on for a while is ~45 degrees. No longer hitting 90 on a Cinebench R20 run, although it will when running Prime95. No notable change in performance, so still getting scores a little lower than expected.
I've ordered a new heatsink to try, if it works well in my case I'll run with it for a while - otherwise it will go into another machine I'm building and I'll start to consider a 240mm/280mm AIO and losing the side window on my NR200P

UK_SPAWN · 12 Nov 2020 at 17:28

PinkFloyd said:
Remounted my heatsink earlier and swapped to a different thermal paste after I found some Noctua NT-H1 (was previously using AS-5). Temps seem to be a few degrees better at a guess, idle with nothing running after the system has been on for a while is ~45 degrees. No longer hitting 90 on a Cinebench R20 run, although it will when running Prime95. No notable change in performance, so still getting scores a little lower than expected.
I've ordered a new heatsink to try, if it works well in my case I'll run with it for a while - otherwise it will go into another machine I'm building and I'll start to consider a 240mm/280mm AIO and losing the side window on my NR200P

what is your current cooler sorry, can you show a picture of what the contact area is like?

EDIT: nevermind, its a low profile 120mm cooler and it has a heat spreader/flat contact area connecting to the 4 heatpipes.

I would say for that cooler those temps are good. the website says for most higher power AM4 chips "low turbo/overclocking headroom" and "compatible without turbo/overclocking headroom"

So the cooler is ONLY JUST for a 5800x.

One of the issues with a cooler like that and the 5800x is the CCD is in the corner but the heatpipes are more located in the middle. there is not much you can do about it with that cooler but if you DID get an AIO you could try an offset mouting bracket like i have just brought to center the cooler over the CCD instead of the center of the IHS.

Corsair ones with the clips that fit the stock plastic amd mounting system work and there is another kit that fits other style cooler that secure with 4 mounting screws/bolts

PinkFloyd · 12 Nov 2020 at 18:49

Contact patch was good when running with the AS-5, used the same amount of paste with the Noctua stuff so suspect it'll be the same. From looking at the pictures of the removed heat spreader I don't think coolers are *that* badly compromised by the offset. It's not like the CCD is right in the corner!
As you say, temps seem comparable with what others have got with similar cooling, I'm just down a bit on multicore Cinebench scores. Single core looks pretty spot on when I've not got other apps open in the background. A clean run with fans cranked up resulted in 612 single core, 5714 multi core.

Need to get and add my results to that spreadsheet doing the rounds on reddit and see more closely how I compare.

Vogon · 12 Nov 2020 at 18:52

Offset mounting bracket is only really needed for AIO's with a round bottom.
Air coolers with heatpipes also get compromised.
If you get an AIO with a good size square, you should get good coverage.
I don't understand why AMD couldn't package them in the centre, surely they dont use the same PCB for single and dual chiplets?

UK_SPAWN · 12 Nov 2020 at 19:12

Vogon said:
Offset mounting bracket is only really needed for AIO's with a round bottom.
Air coolers with heatpipes also get compromised.
If you get an AIO with a good size square, you should get good coverage.
I don't understand why AMD couldn't package them in the centre, surely they dont use the same PCB for single and dual chiplets?

i dont really agree totally with that. all AIOs are designed to have their hotspot in the center of the coldplate where the mocrofins are. even a totally square AIO would benefit a little from putting the hotspot/die in center, but i agree its more of an issue with a circular cold plate. As for the substrate yes it will be the same for all chips, same IO die, same everything just the binned CCDs plonked on. it makes manufacturing easier if its all just 1 thing instead of many variations.

And Pink, no the cooler probably isnt that compromised and would probably only make 3-5c difference if it was "perfect" if there is such a thing.

Vogon · 12 Nov 2020 at 19:21

Its surprising the likes of EK don't have their fins in optimal position for their AMD water blocks, I was looking earlier and the fin base looks identical between the AMD and Intel blocks.

UK_SPAWN · 12 Nov 2020 at 19:24

its difficult because the chips with 2 CCDs are still mostly a central heatspot but just moved a tad to the "side" (relative) where the single CCD ones are going to be down and to the side... I can imagine there could be more optimised blocks coming, it would make sense.. and hey, more stuff they can sell you!

Cenuij · 12 Nov 2020 at 22:22

From /r/Amd

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jsy8bw/robert_hallocks_response_to_all_zen_3_thermal/

Jazz2k · 12 Nov 2020 at 23:12

chroniclard said:
Dont think you should be using Ryzen power plan any more, that was for the older chips.

Yeah, I think JayzTwoCents or Linus said about the power poles for 5000 series and AMD said don't need them anymore

Chewie · 12 Nov 2020 at 23:50

Using the default Windows Balances Power plan here with my 5800X and no problems to report.

Grim5 · 13 Nov 2020 at 01:48

AMD says its normal, now this discussion can go to bed.

AMD expects Zen 3 to run hotter than 2 because a more aggressive boosting algorithm and AMD says anything up to 90c is 100% safe

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jsy8bw/robert_hallocks_response_to_all_zen_3_thermal/

Vogon · 13 Nov 2020 at 07:26

UK_SPAWN said:
Yes... for science apparently

Just ordered my Der8auer mounting bracket from OCUK.

Still waiting for my motherboard though so i cant give any results for another week or so. Will report as soon as i can.

I would be interested to see a before and after, but as you don't have the other bits yet, I am guessing you will put it in first off.
What cooling are you going to be using ?

sedy25 · 13 Nov 2020 at 09:24

Damn son, your 8 core 7nm is running hotter than my 28 cores @4.5GHz 14nm under an AVX2 load.

Ouch.

But seriously, if you want any hope of overclocking your CPU, get a proper cooler.

UK_SPAWN · 13 Nov 2020 at 09:48

Grim5 said:
AMD says its normal, now this discussion can go to bed.

AMD expects Zen 3 to run hotter than 2 because a more aggressive boosting algorithm and AMD says anything up to 90c is 100% safe

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jsy8bw/robert_hallocks_response_to_all_zen_3_thermal/

Yes and as the chart says a small downdraft cooler will run quite hot.

Vogon said:
I would be interested to see a before and after, but as you don't have the other bits yet, I am guessing you will put it in first off.
What cooling are you going to be using ?

Yeah, i wont be testing both configurations as i will just compare to the 5800x spreadsheet thats going around and see how i compare to the average/max/min there.
Ill be using a Corsair H100i Platinum i think it is.. i dont remember. i know its the newest gen pumps (gen6?) before the elite capolex, its not an RGB one either... lol there are so many versions. bit its a H100i anyway.

I spoke to Robert Hallock at AMD regarding the heat output of the I/O die and its around 14 watts and factored into the TDP of the product. so that leaves about 90watts coming from the single die (and thats at stock power limits etc, i will be running maxxed out power limits(PPT, EDC,TDC etc), PBO enabled etc.. so i think moving the cooler center over the larger heat source is really a no brainer.

From other peoples reviews of the Der8auer product it should see a 4-8c improvment but could be more.

Im the OCD kind of person though that when i get something in my brain i cant stop untill i have tweaked everything to an inch of its life... i will report what i find anyway.