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Ryzen 7 5800X Temperatures

I actually made this post initially in a different thread but this one is more relevant to what I wanted to say so I have relocated it here about 5800X temperatures.

I installed a 5800X yesterday, it does get hot under load but seems ok at idle. At idle it's sitting around 32c and will be in the 60-70c range for any gaming I have done so far but for a sustained heavy CPU load, like Cinebench, it bounces off the 90c limiter and drops the clocks to 4.375ghz (seems to sustain that at 90c) When putting it under heavy load it very rapidly hits low 80s at which point my CPU cooling fan will gear upto 100% (it's a Noctua NF-F12 but still noisy at 100%) which holds it at bay for a minute or so as it steps up to 90c and then it will dial it's clocks back a bit and hold there. This is with a Cryorig H7 using a single Noctua NF-F12, I do have another cooler, a Noctua NH-U12F with the same fan which is on my I7 10700 system right now and it handles that just fine will boost at 4.6Ghz all core, all day without the need for 100% fan speed, it's a similar size and design so 'should' have similar cooling capacity I would think but I might try switching these over, if I can find the AM4 fittings for it and see how it is with that anyway.

I have noticed though that the Intel will dump a lot more heat into the case through the heatsink than the 5800X does (pulls a lot more power out of the wall so totally expected), even though it doesn't actually heat up as much, it's curious behaviour but apparently normal for the 5800X as I understand it will simply try and extract as much performance as possible from the chip within the 90c thermal tolerance if you will, within a power limit aswell of course, which is great and efficient and a bit different to how Intel does it. Does this sound right ?

With regards to my cooling issues, I just think this could be a sign that the Cryorig H7 just doesn't pull enough heat away quickly enough to maintain maximum performance and not have to run the fans flat out.

So I am not entirely happy with this right now, not because the temperatures themselves worry me as I understand this is how the chip is designed to work but because to even maintain those and stop the CPU clocking down further I need to run the fans so fast it totally throws the point of my quiet system out of the window. In other words I think I need more cooling capacity to extract the best performance within a 90c 'allowance' from the cpu without it making so much noise. For reference I do get about 15.5k on Cinebench R23 multicore so the performance is there and right where it should be ...I'm just having to run the fans too fast to keep it there.

I think I'm just going to need a better cooler now, it's funny that the far less efficient 10700 didn't trigger that scenario, the 5800X did. Both of the tower coolers I have now are middle weight jobbies and probably arent upto much past 125w, so I suppose I could either look at the larger sized towers like the Noctua D15 or the beQuiet Darkrock Pro 4 ....or look at the AIO route (I have built these into systems for others quite a few times but never actually owned one myself, always stuck with big air coolers and slowed down fans for minimum noise). Looks like beQuiet have improved their mounting system now to be like Noctua's and not the exercise in frustration it used to be. Do any of the AIO's actually have a built in fanhub so I actually only need to take a single PWM connector to the motherboard by chance? ...I am fairly sure I have seen this before somewhere.

My case is a Fractal Define R7 Compact so a bit toasty to be honest, I can accommodate a 240mm AIO at the top or a 240/280mm at the front (I do have the clearance with GPU to do this).

I do also have a Phanteks P400A knocking around ...which obviously has much higher airflow capabilities, I could use that instead but it's rather lacking in front USB ports and feels a bit naff by comparison, but that could take a 360mm rad at the front which I understand is actually not as good as 280mm for keeping the noise down generally as you need to spin the fans faster to maintain enough pressure to cool it properly, sound right ? not sure which way to go with this right now, I like my Fractal case better, I consider the P400A a bit of a purchasing mistake tbh hence it's sitting unused now. The two main reasons I picked the Fractal Define R7 Compact in the first place were, the sound dampening works well for eliminating coil whine which really bothers me and can be heard using the P400A and it has 4 USB type A's on the front and a type C (not really bothered about the type C but having 4 types A is really nice) The Phanteks just has 2 type A's Also I'm just not into RGB and windows really, I started in this hobby in the late '90s and I've always been more interested in performance and silence, the balance of the two really rather than my system looking like a fairground ride.

Any thoughts or recommendations ?
 
@Moeks

A couple of things, the 5800X is very efficient, just as you stated, its not as simple as that, while the CPU only pulls about 130 Watts vs about 200 for the 10700K the 10700K is about four times the size, Zen 3 is on TSMC 7nm vs CFL which is on Intel 14nm, TSMC 7nmm is much much more dense hence the much smaller chip and because there is much less surface area for the heat to dissipate through it is much more difficult for the cooler to remove that heat, i'm sure this will make complete sense to you.

You can use the biggest fattest cooler you can find it will make little to no difference, my 360mm Arctic Liquid Freezer II is better than any Asetek AIO, its better even than an NH D15, slightly. and yet if i leave it as is out of the box my 5800X will still hit 90c while the rad remains stone cold, tho it still boosts to about 4.6Ghz all core in heavy loads.

Add to that they way AMD set these CPU's up is that they will boost until they hit 90c, upto about 4.6 to 4.7Ghz all core, or 4.85Ghz single which it will do even on cheaper coolers, so its almost designed to run at 90c.

But there are things you can do about it, in the BIOS, (Assuming you have AGESA 1.1.8.0 or higher Installed) find settings > AMD overclocking > set PBO to advanced > Find Curve Optimiser > Set Symbol to Minus > Set level to 20.

Your range is 1 to 30, this is like fancy under volting, the higher you set it the more volts it will shave off, the reson it set up like this is because it uses AI and stuff to remove different amounts of volts along the curve for different scenarios, its clever stuff, as well as bringing down power consumption which should bring down your temp iit will also make it boost higher, so more performance.

For example i have my Curve set to minus 15, i also have +150Mhz on the boost offset, what that's done is reduce my high load temp from 90c to 80c, my all core high load boost from 4.65Ghz to 4.75Ghz, my single core and all core gaming boost to 5Ghz.

Try it, i'm here if you need help finding all that or understanding it :)
 
Thanks for the response there, I have done as you suggested, just did a couple of quick Cinebench runs to see how max load behaviour has changed, it's keeping about an extra 100-125mhz of clockspeed over where it was before, it still hits 90c as I expected it would be doesn't seem to dial the chip back quite as much now. I'm just having a lunch break so I don't really have the time to sit down and really play with it now, but just quickly chucking in the values you suggested does seem to have had a mild but positive effect at least.

I need to have a bit more of a read I think.

Screenshot

Does the Package power, EDC and TDC look like you would expect ?
 
Moeks said:
I actually made this post initially in a different thread but this one is more relevant to what I wanted to say so I have relocated it here about 5800X temperatures.

I installed a 5800X yesterday, it does get hot under load but seems ok at idle. At idle it's sitting around 32c and will be in the 60-70c range for any gaming I have done so far but for a sustained heavy CPU load, like Cinebench, it bounces off the 90c limiter and drops the clocks to 4.375ghz (seems to sustain that at 90c) When putting it under heavy load it very rapidly hits low 80s at which point my CPU cooling fan will gear upto 100% (it's a Noctua NF-F12 but still noisy at 100%) which holds it at bay for a minute or so as it steps up to 90c and then it will dial it's clocks back a bit and hold there. This is with a Cryorig H7 using a single Noctua NF-F12, I do have another cooler, a Noctua NH-U12F with the same fan which is on my I7 10700 system right now and it handles that just fine will boost at 4.6Ghz all core, all day without the need for 100% fan speed, it's a similar size and design so 'should' have similar cooling capacity I would think but I might try switching these over, if I can find the AM4 fittings for it and see how it is with that anyway.

I have noticed though that the Intel will dump a lot more heat into the case through the heatsink than the 5800X does (pulls a lot more power out of the wall so totally expected), even though it doesn't actually heat up as much, it's curious behaviour but apparently normal for the 5800X as I understand it will simply try and extract as much performance as possible from the chip within the 90c thermal tolerance if you will, within a power limit aswell of course, which is great and efficient and a bit different to how Intel does it. Does this sound right ?

With regards to my cooling issues, I just think this could be a sign that the Cryorig H7 just doesn't pull enough heat away quickly enough to maintain maximum performance and not have to run the fans flat out.

So I am not entirely happy with this right now, not because the temperatures themselves worry me as I understand this is how the chip is designed to work but because to even maintain those and stop the CPU clocking down further I need to run the fans so fast it totally throws the point of my quiet system out of the window. In other words I think I need more cooling capacity to extract the best performance within a 90c 'allowance' from the cpu without it making so much noise. For reference I do get about 15.5k on Cinebench R23 multicore so the performance is there and right where it should be ...I'm just having to run the fans too fast to keep it there.

I think I'm just going to need a better cooler now, it's funny that the far less efficient 10700 didn't trigger that scenario, the 5800X did. Both of the tower coolers I have now are middle weight jobbies and probably arent upto much past 125w, so I suppose I could either look at the larger sized towers like the Noctua D15 or the beQuiet Darkrock Pro 4 ....or look at the AIO route (I have built these into systems for others quite a few times but never actually owned one myself, always stuck with big air coolers and slowed down fans for minimum noise). Looks like beQuiet have improved their mounting system now to be like Noctua's and not the exercise in frustration it used to be. Do any of the AIO's actually have a built in fanhub so I actually only need to take a single PWM connector to the motherboard by chance? ...I am fairly sure I have seen this before somewhere.

My case is a Fractal Define R7 Compact so a bit toasty to be honest, I can accommodate a 240mm AIO at the top or a 240/280mm at the front (I do have the clearance with GPU to do this).

I do also have a Phanteks P400A knocking around ...which obviously has much higher airflow capabilities, I could use that instead but it's rather lacking in front USB ports and feels a bit naff by comparison, but that could take a 360mm rad at the front which I understand is actually not as good as 280mm for keeping the noise down generally as you need to spin the fans faster to maintain enough pressure to cool it properly, sound right ? not sure which way to go with this right now, I like my Fractal case better, I consider the P400A a bit of a purchasing mistake tbh hence it's sitting unused now. The two main reasons I picked the Fractal Define R7 Compact in the first place were, the sound dampening works well for eliminating coil whine which really bothers me and can be heard using the P400A and it has 4 USB type A's on the front and a type C (not really bothered about the type C but having 4 types A is really nice) The Phanteks just has 2 type A's Also I'm just not into RGB and windows really, I started in this hobby in the late '90s and I've always been more interested in performance and silence, the balance of the two really rather than my system looking like a fairground ride.

Any thoughts or recommendations ?
Click to expand...
Try dropping PPT down to 120 (it's 142 by default). That should bring you temps down into the 80s and allow our multi core clock to boost further. A 360 AIO would allow maximum performance from your chip but they are usually a trade off in terms of noise; you will here the fans once fully stressing the CPU although not for gaming so much. Air flow in the case will be having a significant impact too.
 
Ok so I will do some more tweaking, I have found the mounting hardware I ordered years ago and never used for the Noctua NH-U12F but to be honest, I don't know if I can be bothered to do another rebuild just now, I don't think it will be different enough to make it worth it, the coolers are almost exactly the same size, within a few tens of grams of each other in weight and the H7 has 2 more fins, it 'might' be a little bit better as the Noctua has an extra heat-pipe and is the slightly heavier unit (this is the original from the Core2Duo days so I've had it 13 or 14 years now) but frankly I think they will be about the same.

I think what I am going to do is buy this Liquid Freezer II 280 ...two reasons for the 280mm, it will fit in both my cases so I can play around with them in this sense, where as if I bought the 360mm version it will only fit in the P400A (also it's out of stock everywhere now, the soonest I can get a 360mm is Wednesday 21st apparently) thus limiting me to my less preferred case, however if it proves sufficiently beneficial to switch back to it, I will.

EDIT: Actually the Define 7 Compact will take a 360mm rad, in the front, but still, the one I want is out of stock everywhere.

The 280MM AIO combined with some more tweaking should see me in a good place I think, if the overall airflow in the Fractal Define 7 C proves insufficient I can still switch back over to the P400A which has tonne of airflow. The 420MM version of the Liquid Freezer II is kind of tempting I must say, but I would need a whole new case to deal with that and I bought the 5800X on a whim as it was :p ...so I don't really need to be spending too much more money just for kicks, after all I do already have a 10700 which is broadly equivalent, not quite as fast but in my case it pretty much is because the 5800X will throttle itself if I lower the fan speeds to the point I am happy with the noise, like the Intel, where as if I let it unleash it's extra power it needs more cooling. If I can get this in a place I am happy with the noise and performance as a package, I'll sell the Intel on, if not ...well might be selling the AMD on but I really 'want' to go back to AMD, playing with Intel 10th gen has been my 'lockdown hobby anyway' I want to leave that behind now ideally.
 
5800x in a CROSSHAIR VII x470 here with 2x360 rads cooling just the CPU.

At idle, the CPU is sitting at 40-45°C with fans running at 40%. My fan profile is set to max fans when the CPU reaches 75°C.

CinebenchR23 pushes temps up to 80-85°C unsurprisingly. As observed by @humbug, fan were at 100% and rads stone cold.

I changed the fan profile to max at 60% / 75°C and there was hardly any change to CPU temps in CinebenchR23. No throttling either. Stumped at first but reading through this thread has helped.

What I am concerned about it whether the x470 is being pushed too hard at default settings. What are your thoughts?

Also, from what I’ve picked up, the easiest way to reduce temps is either/or:-
1. Change PBO as suggested by @humbug
2. Change Windows power plan to “power save”.

Have I got that right?

Ta.
 
I should think your X470 will be fine, I'm running mine on a B450 albeit one with a known solid VRM, the MSI B450M Mortar Max, I don't think the current going through the VRM's is a problem here, just the chips get hot and it's a case of trying to tame that as much as possible to get the most performance out of them. Be that with cooling and or tweaking PBO and power settings.
 
Moeks said:
I should think your X470 will be fine, I'm running mine on a B450 albeit one with a known solid VRM, the MSI B450M Mortar Max, I don't think the current going through the VRM's is a problem here, just the chips get hot and it's a case of trying to tame that as much as possible to get the most performance out of them. Be that with cooling and or tweaking PBO and power settings.
Click to expand...

Thanks Moaks, I'll have a play around with PBO and see where that gets me.
 
Moeks said:
Thanks for the response there, I have done as you suggested, just did a couple of quick Cinebench runs to see how max load behaviour has changed, it's keeping about an extra 100-125mhz of clockspeed over where it was before, it still hits 90c as I expected it would be doesn't seem to dial the chip back quite as much now. I'm just having a lunch break so I don't really have the time to sit down and really play with it now, but just quickly chucking in the values you suggested does seem to have had a mild but positive effect at least.

I need to have a bit more of a read I think.

Screenshot

Does the Package power, EDC and TDC look like you would expect ?
Click to expand...
drop your package power to 100 and leave EDC @ 140 and TDC @ 90 you should see significant drop in temps

default motherbaord package power is 140W for 5800X the default for the chip is 105w.

with all those settings on auto or not altered, you are using the maximum thermal and electrical current specification for the chip. if you want temps to be inline with the default spec for 5800X then drop the package power down.

I am on LF2 360mm and it can manage the 140W output just fine. mid 70c after a couple of hours of aida64 with P12 fans kicking in at 70% rpm.

at 120w (which is my current profile) the 2hr torture test yield mid 60c fans run at 60%RPM.

my fan profile is 40% upto 50c 60% upto 70c then 70% for anyting beyond with step change no gradual fan speed change.
 
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@pc-guy, I'll look into trying that when I finish working for the day, thanks.

I did order the Liquid Freezer II 280 lastnight, should get that tomorrow so that should give me more headroom to play with.

@denigor777 - actually yes, to be honest if I was buying again now with my new requirements, I'd probably have the Purebase 500DX near the top of my list. Or perhaps just push upto a Silentbase 802 and put a 420mm Liquid Freezer II in it :D
 
I must have got very lucky with my 5800X because I'm getting 4.9Ghz on all cores at 1.3V 27C idle 40C gaming with custom water on a RX480 Rad, I can get it to 4950mhz on 1.3V but I like it to not have a chance of crashing and it does prime 95 np at 1.3V stable no errors.
 
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jorzeh said:
I must have got very lucky with my 5800X because I'm getting 4.9Ghz on all cores at 1.3V 27C idle 40C gaming with custom water on a RX480 Rad, I can get it to 4950mhz on 1.3V but I like it to not have a chance of crashing and it does prime 95 np at 1.3V stable no errors.
Click to expand...
That’s a strong chip!

while gaming my 5800x doesn’t go above 60c either as not all the cores are heavily loaded with a few threads spiking. Some times the temp will spike to mid 60c but it drops straight away again.

To test how hot the chip can get, use Aida64. Prime and OCCT doesn’t load up zen3 cores as much as Aida64. Prime really doesn’t produce anywhere near the same amount of heat. OCCt is somewhere in the middle and Aida really heats it up.

Zen2 Aida was behind OCCT in terms of load on CPU. It is something they did to the architecture which resulted in this.
 
To be fair to mine, it doesn't really leave the 60s while gaming either, I have seen it hit 71-72 on occasion over the last couple of days, it's just when I stress it it's problematic I think, and this is with the medium sized single fan aircooler on I am using in a case that isn't exactly airflow central either.
 
I've been fiddling with the curve optimiser and PBO on mine. Got it to a negative 15 offset so far with a +150MHz auto OC setting, which leads to ~4.65GHz under 100% load with temperatures in the mid-70s, and a peak of 5GHz under light ones (every core seems able to hit that). In more CPU-heavy games it sits at ~4.8GHz with temps in the low-to-mid-60s. Idles around 33. No WHEA errors either. Might see if I can push it a bit more. Don't really fancy a static overclock or voltage though.

Very pleased with it though so far, considering all the bad press it's gotten about temperatures. It runs no hotter than my 10600K did at 5GHz. Maybe I just got lucky with my sample.
 
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