Caporegime
I've not measured the FPS differences myself, I've just heard from other users that use Spiderman as a CPU test that Very High RT increases the demand on the CPU.
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Poll: Ryzen 7950X3D, 7900X3D, 7800X3D
- Thread starter kindai
- Start date
Soldato
AMD could have made both chiplets have 3D V-Cache and made the ultimate gaming CPU,but didn't. Just think if a game does actually use more than 8 cores in the future,its going to not only have the inter-chiplet latency issue,but now is going to be on two different types of chiplets.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Ryzen 9 8950X3D ends up with dual 3D V-Cache chiplets,and AMD can advertise how much better/consistent it will be over the Ryzen 9 7950X3D. It's like AMD is intentionally holding back just because Intel is stuck at only 8 performance cores!
It wouldn't surprise me if the Ryzen 9 8950X3D ends up with dual 3D V-Cache chiplets,and AMD can advertise how much better/consistent it will be over the Ryzen 9 7950X3D. It's like AMD is intentionally holding back just because Intel is stuck at only 8 performance cores!
Caporegime
Don't know if you saw the video I posted a page or two back, but the reason both CCDs don't have VCache is explained in that video.AMD could have made both chiplets have 3D V-Cache and made the ultimate gaming CPU,but didn't. Just think if a game does actually use more than 8 cores in the future,its going to not only have the inter-chiplet latency issue,but now is going to be on two different types of chiplets.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Ryzen 9 8950X3D ends up with dual 3D V-Cache chiplets,and AMD can advertise how much better/consistent it will be over the Ryzen 9 7950X3D. It's like AMD is intentionally holding back just because Intel is stuck at only 8 performance cores!
Soldato
The 3D V-Cache chiplets will cost more to make and it wouldn't surprise me if they have to bin them a bit better too(for less leakiness). It's entirely about cost IMHO(despite AMD trying to sell it as the best of both worlds),and the fact Intel is stuck at 8 performance cores. If Intel were to have a CPU with 16 performance cores,then expect AMD to suddenly launch an X3D part with both chiplets having 3D V-Cache.Either way,because AMD has not included a hardware schedular,it's at the mercy of MS,even moreso than Intel who has tried to include a hardware schedular.
The reality is that for gamers,the Ryzen 7 7800X3D is a better part,and for people running non-gaming applications the Ryzen 9 7950X3D mostly seems a better part. The Ryzen 9 7950X3D seems neither here nor there TBH,because especially if you are buying it for the point of moar than 8 cores for gaming,its going to hit issues due to heterogeneous core usage! It's telling that AMD is only allow reviews of the Ryzen 7 7800X3D weeks later. The Ryzen 9 5900X3D demo had 3D V-Cache on both cores.
In fact it's cheaper to do it this time,if you watch AdoredTV's latest video. The cache chiplet is not only smaller now but is attached in a better way.
I really wish AMD just launched two 3D V-Cache SKUs,ie,the Ryzen 7 7800X3D and the Ryzen 9 7950X3D with a homogeneous cache configuration.
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Associate
Yes good points.
Though a gaming CPU with more than 8 good cores would be nice. Though right now almost no games benefit from more than 8, in the future some may. And of course they want us to have to upgrade and not sell a part that will age well. So we are stuck with 8 strong cores on one ring/CCD from Intel and AMD.
But you get exactly that. 8 good cores (slightly worse than Intel's) and 8 specialized cores (Much better in specific workloads).
The way you're talking it's almost as if you imply standard Zen cores are like Intel's E cores...
Soldato
The issue is also for any application which might like 3D V-Cache too and they are expecting MS to solve this for them. Not even Intel trusted MS to do a decent job so included hardware scheduling. Did MS do a good job with the Bulldozer type design - nope.
This is another self created AMD problem. Intel has that problem because they can't get away from being stuck on what it essentially a 10NM process node,so needs all these janky core configurations so they can compete in some way. AMD end up making a janky core configuration to save a few dollars. The 3D V-Cache this generation is smaller and cheaper than the first generation job - the Ryzen 9 3D V-Cache prototypes had cache on both chiplets.
But the thing as usual AMD gets a pass on this,but Intel didn't. Wait until the Ryzen 9 8950X3D has cache on both chiplets and everyone will forget about this.
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I'm not sure it's a bad idea TBH.
The way it's setup it basically can be fixed with a gamebar update instead of something at driver or BIOS level, much more agile.
Does it have its drawbacks? Of course. Neither solution is perfect anyway.
problem is, even with 3d cache on both CCDs, it would still be janky for gaming. Inter-CCD latency does not go anywhere
so threads that talk to each other need to be on same CCD, defeating the purpose of cache on the other.
Not sure about cache on both ccds , cache only benefits specific workload and spread over will cause latency also will be losing out with having to lower clocks hurting productivity tasks
If or when games start using more cores they will have ccds that will have increased cores 12 cores per ccd ?
Zen5 x3d ? Maybe too soon
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Associate
- Joined
- 16 Nov 2020
- Posts
- 269
I'd certainly be in the market for the 5950x3d - changing motherboards on the other hand seems like far too much of a trauma. They all seem good to me to be fair not sure there's an awful lot to get particularly vexed about. At least they represent innovation and doing things a bit differently.
Caporegime
This is why they didn't do it the first time round.
The reality is for some people if there is anything, anything at all that people can latch on to to make it a thing for screaming click bait crap they will, and because inventing new stuff is never perfect people who push boundaries are nervous about it.
Its why Intel, in the past have sat and done absolutely nothing, if you don't do anything no one can criticise you of anything, other than doing nothing, but that is safe.
Click bait leaches is why we can't have nice things, people like this are a cancer, I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what the big ###### deal is with these chips.
Caporegime
Stop giving people like this oxygen!
Associate
They both have their own problem and with the competition between them its a shame really. Yes there is some great performance to be had, but really neither company has a CPU that does not from my experience have too many issues.
Intel's node uses too much heat and they cannot get more than 8 good cores on the ring and use these gimmick e-cores. Plus 13th Gen DDR5 XMP stability at least on every Asus motherboard I have tried has been a mess.
Yes AMD's 8 other cores are also strong cores and of the same type, just no 3D cache on one them and the scheduling problems with Windows.
Plus they are on different CCDs and the cross latency penalty which is high and games need fast latency.
Zen 5 I hear is going to have 16 cores on a single CCD and will have 2 16 core CCDs for 32 cores total. That will be something special if true. 16 cores per CCD and if games start to use more than 8 by then a gamers paradise.
Give them oxygen with Methane and a match. There would be no combustion without oxygen.
Edit - Made an edit to stay relevant to the main thread to say I am enjoying playing halo infinite on the 7950x3D. Never had any problems with the 5800X3D but the 7950x3D seems very smooth with the 4090. Not that I can buy anything more expensive anyway
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Associate
The 'controversy' regarding the 7950X3D vs the 7800X3D is really rather boggling to me. Definitely one of those 'internet why do you always have to be so internet' moments...
To me it's fairly clear cut and hardly rocket science... from a gaming perspective performance between the 2 cpus is going to largely be a wash. Equivalent in the overwhelming bulk of cases, edge cases going to either cpu on a title by title basis. The choice really comes down to 3 simple things:
1. How big of a deal is $250 to you?
2. How much non-gaming use of consequence do you do?
3. How patient are you?
If I am perfectly honest the 7800X3D is probably the best match for my needs yet I am in line for a 7950X3D because $250 is an inconsequential cost (especially over the life of use I am going to get out of it), and, most importantly, I need to get off this 4790K system and have run out of patience. The 7800X3D isnt due for launch for another 3 weeks but it's not much of a bet to say it is going to be a *very hard* part to acquire for, what, several months at the least? Nope I am done waiting hence the 7950X3D (even though I am still waiting for it to come back in stock sadlol).
To me it's fairly clear cut and hardly rocket science... from a gaming perspective performance between the 2 cpus is going to largely be a wash. Equivalent in the overwhelming bulk of cases, edge cases going to either cpu on a title by title basis. The choice really comes down to 3 simple things:
1. How big of a deal is $250 to you?
2. How much non-gaming use of consequence do you do?
3. How patient are you?
If I am perfectly honest the 7800X3D is probably the best match for my needs yet I am in line for a 7950X3D because $250 is an inconsequential cost (especially over the life of use I am going to get out of it), and, most importantly, I need to get off this 4790K system and have run out of patience. The 7800X3D isnt due for launch for another 3 weeks but it's not much of a bet to say it is going to be a *very hard* part to acquire for, what, several months at the least? Nope I am done waiting hence the 7950X3D (even though I am still waiting for it to come back in stock sadlol).
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Associate
Yes true if only it was actually available at MSRP and not ebay scalper prices it is only $250 more and probably better binned 3D cache CCD as it is out of stock everywhere.
Since the 7800X3D is best match for your needs and you have run out of patience, do you plan to disable the 2nd CCD to make it exactly the same as a 7800X3D?
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Soldato
I'm in the same boat around getting impatient. I know the 7800X3D is probably the better chip for my needs, but as you say even in a few weeks when it's released it's probably gonna be hard to get hold of based on the 7950X3D release.
To be fair the 13900k is probably a reasonable consideration too. Competes in all area (games & productivity) despite having 16 e-cores and is cheaper (than the 7950X3D). Probably runs a little hotter, but neither are cool.
You also forgot option 4:
4. How big do you need your e-peen?
Associate
If you turn off one of the CCD's on the 7950X, would it perform the same or better than the 7950X3D with the 3D cache CCD turned off? I presume so as the 7950X3D with the cache turned off above, preforms better that 7950X. Is this because of the latency between the two CCD's in the 7950X?Curious. Doom stood out to me in review because it clearly didn't like dual CCDs
