S-Trax Super Tweeter

Great! Though its a case of that things just sound 'normal' now with a super tweeter and flat without :p

As mentioned before, I first listened to SuperTrax at the 2024 North West Audio Show, I knew I had to have them.

How are you getting on with the power conditioning?
 
As mentioned before, I first listened to SuperTrax at the 2024 North West Audio Show, I knew I had to have them.

How are you getting on with the power conditioning?

It was a bit of a game changer tbh so I looked on ebay and managed to get 2 blocks, with power cables, for about a third what it would have been new, so pleased with that!

When the second one arrives I'm going to organise everything at the back of the rack, which has just turned into a spaghetti of cables...so this is a convenient excuse to try and tidy it all up. But since it's my AV as well with a 5.4.2 speaker config, and the 2 amps, it's one hell of a mess back there! But if I can even just get some separation between the power and speaker cables I'll be happy :)
 
It was a bit of a game changer tbh so I looked on ebay and managed to get 2 blocks, with power cables, for about a third what it would have been new, so pleased with that!
Remind me again what power conditioning your running.

You have to experiment with what's best regarding cables and what is plugged into where. Once your happy then rebuild up the racks putting cables in there best place for management and routing.

If your running AV I presume you have a htpc, mine is on its own power filter away from the audio block as the computer will inject noise. I then use an iFi defender on the USB port to isolate into my DAC.
 
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Remind me again what power conditioning your running.

The isol-8 powerline. Managed to get 2 of them (still waiting for 1) so they've each got 1 high power socket for things like an amp - so Denon AV in 1 and the Aethos in the other. Then 3 other source sockets each, which is enough for the rest of the equipment.

The only unknown atm, is if the 'normal' sockets are ok for the subs since I assume they are quite high draw. I assume theyll be fine, but some conflicting info when I googled, but can but try.

You have to experiment with what's best regarding cables and what is plugged into where. Once your happy then rebuild up the racks putting cables in there best place for management and routing.

If your running AV I presume you have a htpc, mine is on its own power filter away from the audio block as the computer will inject noise. I then use an iFi defender on the USB port to isolate into my DAC.

I use an Nvidia shield as the media streamer, the server & pc's are in another room.
 
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The only unknown atm, is if the 'normal' sockets are ok for the subs since I assume they are quite high draw. I assume theyll be fine, but some conflicting info when I googled, but can but try.

The filtered sockets on the ISO-8 will hold the sub back. How much depends on the ISO-8’s internal design, but filtered outlets will impede to some degree.

Low impedance is really important for pretty much everything, even DACs. Transformers usually recharge the caps at the peaks of the AC sine wave. The lower the impedance, the quicker those caps refill, and that tends to translate into better dynamics and overall musicality.

Also if the mains impedance is low, the transformer is drawing current further away from the noisy centre section of the AC waveform where RF crud often is. So even before you add any filters, a low-impedance supply can already help reduce noise.

For reference, I’m using Russ Andrews power blocks with passive filters that knock down noise above about 5 kHz, plus extra filters that deal with RF noise above 1 GHz (so they tame Wi-Fi and mobile interference). I’ve also got passive voltage clamps that kick in around 350 V. The AC has voltage spikes that happen thousands of times a second, but the duration is not long enough to trip a RCD, however they still cause distortion in transformers. The Russ Andrews block itself is double-wired with Kimber TCX, which helps minimise voltage sag. So all eight sockets are low-impedance and suitable for power amps.

And the reason you have a power-block or mains extension as opposed to plugging everything into the wall is there is less ground loops, it's called star-wiring.

Then to compliment the power-block and passive filtering, I'm using low impedance 12TC Kimber Power cables that are braided, when you braid or twist a cable it helps cancel noise. So the power-cable itself is also a filter, and by using a shielded or filtered cable on your components your helping to isolate them from one another, as audio components can put a bit of noise back into the mains block.

Power amps are notorious for causing voltage dips, and those dips can effect more sensitive kit like DACs and phono stages. That’s why high-end power blocks/strips expense goes into the internal wiring to reduce those dips, hence my RA power blocks are double wired with the Kimber TCX. Even with this there is still some dips from the power-amp, nothing is perfect everything is a compromise to some degree.

Worth saying that the house ring main isn’t really the weak point. It’s already at least 2.5 mm and forms a loop, so impedance is decent. The problems tend to start after the wall socket.

The worst thing anyone can do is use those cheap white Homebase/Argos type extension leads. They impede and throw extra noise into the system. People will spent thousands on gear then think a £7.99 extension is acceptable, then spent years changing gear wondering why nothing really sounds correct, but never addressing the AC power.

One advantage your ISO-8 does have is DC blocking, my passive setup can’t remove DC, so that’s definitely a plus I don’t have.

If you’re running an integrated amp, remember that putting the amp on an unfiltered socket means the preamp section inside it is also unfiltered. My integrated benefits from the fact that all my sockets are passively conditioned, so the preamp section is passively conditioned also.

So to summarise, you just have to try the sockets on the ISO-8 and listen to what effect things are having depending on where there plugged into.

The other advantage is more consistence sound quality. If you have ever listened to your audio say at 1am in the morning and thought it sounds better that’s almost certainly reduced AC issues due to lower mains activity. With mains conditioning sound quality is not only improved, but more consistence regardless of time of day.
 
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Wow, thats really interesting and informative @Admetos !

Ive just checked and the Isol-8 powerline ultra doesn't incorporate DC blocking, but the other one I've ordered, the Isol-8 1080 does and that one has the specific TV socket too.

Both have 1 high power socket (with shunt filters) and 3 source sockets (with transmodal filters) - you'll know what that means more than me lol.

So probably best to use the 1080 on the stereo setup (aethos, streamer & DAC and TV will reach) and the ultra on the AV amp
and other items.

So would the subwoofers be better straight into the wall, rather than in the basic extension leads (monster ones) that they're currently in?
 
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So you have 2 amps, one for stereo, and an AV amp? Then 2 subs also?

There is no right or wrong, you have to try all combinations and listen to what is best.

Over the DC filtering, it depends how much (if any) DC is on your mains. If you have a toroidal transformer DC on the mains will make that transformer 'hum' if you get your ear next to is. I'm lucky I don't appear to have any DC on the mains.

Those ISO-8's are filtering very well, even the high-current socket is using some passive filtering.

I would put one stereo amp on a high current socket, then the AV amp on the other high current socket of other strip. Then put everything associated with that respective amp on same associated socket, so all the stereo gear on same socket. Put the stereo gear on the one with DC filtering, as your stereo is more important for critical listening.

Over the subs on the wall. That would be better then using the monster socket extension. I would also try a sub on a filtered socket out of curiosity, but you probably end up using them on a wall.

As with your S-Trax super-tweeters, you have to be a critical listener. You have to try different combinations of things.

The things your listening for is increased musicality (from lower impedance AC), also high frequency distortion that effects long listening sessions. Also distortion in amplifiers that effect the amplifiers head-room.

The goal is to get to a stage, where your not thinking about gear / setup any more. And you just turn the audio gear on, and focus only on the music / sound.

Also you can think there's an issue in one area, but it's from another issue. Quick example, you can think you need to turn-down your S-Trax on the presence control, however the issue is high frequency noise getting into DAC and your confusing it and thinking it's the S-Trax set to high That's a quick example of what can happen with your setup at the stage your at. Over time and trying different things and listening, you'll optimise everything.
 
So you have 2 amps, one for stereo, and an AV amp? Then 2 subs also?

Yep, and the Denon (AV) uses the front pre-outs going into the Aethos (Stereo) via the HT bypass to drive the front speakers.

Then both subs are connected to the Denon via the LFE channels and to the Aethos speaker posts with the high level inputs.

There is no right or wrong, you have to try all combinations and listen to what is best.

Over the DC filtering, it depends how much (if any) DC is on your mains. If you have a toroidal transformer DC on the mains will make that transformer 'hum' if you get your ear next to is. I'm lucky I don't appear to have any DC on the mains.

Those ISO-8's are filtering very well, even the high-current socket is using some passive filtering.

I would put one stereo amp on a high current socket, then the AV amp on the other high current socket of other strip. Then put everything associated with that respective amp on same associated socket, so all the stereo gear on same socket. Put the stereo gear on the one with DC filtering, as your stereo is more important for critical listening.

Over the subs on the wall. That would be better then using the monster socket extension. I would also try a sub on a filtered socket out of curiosity, but you probably end up using them on a wall.

As with your S-Trax super-tweeters, you have to be a critical listener. You have to try different combinations of things.

The things your listening for is increased musicality (from lower impedance AC), also high frequency distortion that effects long listening sessions. Also distortion in amplifiers that effect the amplifiers head-room.

The goal is to get to a stage, where your not thinking about gear / setup any more. And you just turn the audio gear on, and focus only on the music / sound.

Also you can think there's an issue in one area, but it's from another issue. Quick example, you can think you need to turn-down your S-Trax on the presence control, however the issue is high frequency noise getting into DAC and your confusing it and thinking it's the S-Trax set to high That's a quick example of what can happen with your setup at the stage your at. Over time and trying different things and listening, you'll optimise everything.

*thumbs up*
 
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Yep, and the Denon (AV) uses the front pre-outs going into the Aethos (Stereo) via the HT bypass to drive the front speakers.

Then both subs are connected to the Denon via the LFE channels and to the Aethos speaker posts with the high level inputs.



*thumbs up*

How do you ensure in AV mode your sub isn't reproducing signal from the high level inputs? (as you would only want the LFE signals to be reproduced)

One method to test this is but your system in AV mode, but disconnect the cable from the Denon to the sub. If sound comes from the sub still then it's reproducing the high level signal.
 
How do you ensure in AV mode your sub isn't reproducing signal from the high level inputs? (as you would only want the LFE signals to be reproduced)

I did think of that when setting up so checked, and in the manual it does say both inputs can be used at the same time.

Would it be the settings in the AV, as the fronts aren't set to full, so crossover setting only sends (say) 80Hz and below to the subs and above to fronts.

Then the subs have a crossover dial themselves from 40 - 120hz, so with all set at the same frequency that would stop it receiving double signals from the lfe and high level?

The BK Electronics XXLS400 does not have a feature to automatically prioritize the LFE channel over the high-level input. Instead, it is designed to allow the simultaneous connection and use of both inputs, with separate gain controls for each, allowing you to blend the two sources.
This design allows the subwoofer to handle both movie LFE signals from an AV processor and music bass from a stereo amplifier seamlessly.
 
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I did think of that when setting up so checked, and in the manual it does say both inputs can be used at the same time.

Would it be the settings in the AV, as the fronts aren't set to full, so crossover setting only sends (say) 80Hz and below to the subs and above to fronts.

Then the subs have a crossover dial themselves from 40 - 120hz, so with all set at the same frequency that would stop it receiving double signals from the lfe and high level?

That's a bad idea, as the signal from LFE and speakers will be on different phase, combining the two, so bit of a messed up signal. You want to mute the stereo signal in AV mode. In Stereo mode, the AVR will be off/won't be sending a signal so that isn't a problem.
 
I did think of that when setting up so checked, and in the manual it does say both inputs can be used at the same time.

Would it be the settings in the AV, as the fronts aren't set to full, so crossover setting only sends (say) 80Hz and below to the subs and above to fronts.

Then the subs have a crossover dial themselves from 40 - 120hz, so with all set at the same frequency that would stop it receiving double signals from the lfe and high level?

If you have a UMIK you can test whether the signal is being screwed up

1) Plot response from the subs with signal from the LFE RCA-RCA only (disconnect speaker level to sub
2) Plot response from the subs with signal when LFE RCA-RCA and speaker level is connected

If responses are different (and look worse) with 2) then it's buggering it up.
 
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