Salary Negotiation, bit of help please

dl8860 · 1 Feb 2016 at 14:38

So tomorrow I have a second round interview for a new job in the same sector but a very different role. Currently I'm a a structural engineer working in an engineering services consultancy in Oil and Gas, the new job is for the position of loss adjuster for a company actually quite similar to my current one, but they happen to have an arm in Adjusting.

Long and the short, the recruiter originally played up the salary range for the new role by an inordinate amount, leading me to pitch a much higher salary expectation (£[X+12]k) at first interview than they the employer were anticipating. He told me this during a phone call after, and apologised, and said their budget was much more around the £[X]k mark. He said they still wanted to go to second interview, but was I OK with this lower budgeted amount, and as my current salary is £[X-3.2]k I agreed.

He said he'd see what they could do about stretching their budget a little further, and find out details about the second interview. He also says that basically the only other competition for the role is someone with only 1 years experience (I have 3), but his salary expectation are more like £[X-10]k.

This morning he comes back, and says that due to the other guy being more affordable, and current salary levels in their team, they wouldn't be comfortable offering me any more than matching my current salary, £[X-3.2k].

I'm really not sure what to make of this, are they playing extreme hardball? I can't work out if the recruiter is also on their side or not (he strongly assured me they weren't playing hardball). On the one hand, I assume the recruiter wants as high a salary as possible to get him the most comission, but on the other hand what happened to the budget of £[X]k? Or was he lying about that to keep me interested?

All in all, I would be happy to take this job for the same salary I am on now, but I think this would be underselling myself, and it definitely would be a harder job.

Has anyone been in a similar situation before? Can I conduct further salary negotiation when meeting with the regional MD tomorrow, or would that be poor form, as currently that is going on via the recruiter? Or would it be legitimate to say look, the recruiter keeps getting this wrong, can we have a frank discussion?

Thanks all

SMN · 1 Feb 2016 at 14:42

Go direct and play hard ball back, but at the end of the day is it worth losing a good career move over £3k? Probably not. But if you feel they are being disrespectful to you, then absolutely tell them where to go.

Years ago I was offered via LinkedIn a 'great opportunity' on salary + 50%, naturally i interviewed - got offered the job, however when the offer came through they offered salary + 30% - despite it being agreed throughout that the number was 'X'. I immediately told them where to stuff it and rejected the role. Respect is hugely important at the start of a new role, if you dont feel valued at the start then you arent going to last very long.

tom_e · 1 Feb 2016 at 14:44

Seems a bit off to say they have a budget of X but we'll see if we can stretch it and then come back and say they're only prepared to pay X-3.2k.
I'd probably just tell them were to go at that point, seems like they're expecting you to be a walkover.

dowie · 1 Feb 2016 at 14:46

dl8860 said:
This morning he comes back, and says that due to the other guy being more affordable, and current salary levels in their team, they wouldn't be comfortable offering me any more than matching my current salary, £[X-3.2k].

that sucks, why bother with the additional risk in moving jobs then...

On the one hand, I assume the recruiter wants as high a salary as possible to get him the most comission, but on the other hand what happened to the budget of £[X]k? Or was he lying about that to keep me interested?

Recruiters frequently lie yes, he doesn't necessarily want to push for as high a salary as possible(especially not if this means increasing the chance they go with another candidate), he wants to close the deal and earn his commission - your interests aren't aligned despite what he might try to tell you.

Can I conduct further salary negotiation when meeting with the regional MD tomorrow, or would that be poor form, as currently that is going on via the recruiter? Or would it be legitimate to say look, the recruiter keeps getting this wrong, can we have a frank discussion?

Unless they've given you an offer you're not negotiating yet, I wouldn't necessarily bring it up if they don't. If they give you an offer for £[X-3.2k] just ask for more. I mean surely you want at least £[X-3.2k] * 1.2 in order to move to a new company?

craig_t · 1 Feb 2016 at 14:47

Don't under sell yourself. Take what you're worth cause I guarantee you'll be stuck on that salary. If you really want the extra stress/work for same/less money then take it, but personally I would be asking for more.

You sell yourself, to show that you cost more than the other guy because you give them better quality of work, faster results blah blah..

tom_e · 1 Feb 2016 at 14:49

Has all of this come from the recruiter so far?

If so it's definitely worth waiting till you can talk to the puppet master as it's not unusual for Chinese whispers to occur even just by passing through a recruiter.

peterwalkley · 1 Feb 2016 at 15:05

tom_e said:
Seems a bit off to say they have a budget of X but we'll see if we can stretch it and then come back and say they're only prepared to pay X-3.2k.
I'd probably just tell them were to go at that point, seems like they're expecting you to be a walkover.

This. I would just cancel the second interview politely. Not worth the time.

dl8860 · 1 Feb 2016 at 15:11

peterwalkley said:
This. I would just cancel the second interview politely. Not worth the time.

Well from a principled point of view, and if they were identical jobs then absolutely yes, I agree.

But I would enjoy the new job much more, it would be more of a challenge and I think I could go much further in it.

It's just the thought of not getting any pay bump at all is a bit grating really.

I think a few people above have given good advice, to let them make an offer (if 2nd interview goes well of course) and then negotiate on that. My faith in the recruiter is pretty much rock bottom right now.

Delvis · 1 Feb 2016 at 15:33

I'd just avoid the recruiter, go in for the other interview or what have and ask from there.

Most recruiters are pretty much just 'men in the middle'.

Tone1979 · 1 Feb 2016 at 15:34

I played very hard on my salary. It took 2 weeks of back and forth before we agreed on the £££.

It does feel a little awkward but you are committing to something that may not change much in the future. It was all kept polite and professional but in the end I got what I wanted and so did my manager.

I am still here 5 years later.

UTmaniac · 1 Feb 2016 at 15:54

From what you have divulged so far, I would not accept less than £[x-1.5]K as a starting point, if you don't hold your ground at the start they will try to walk all over you at future salary reviews.

Sudden · 1 Feb 2016 at 16:19

dl8860 said:
Well from a principled point of view, and if they were identical jobs then absolutely yes, I agree.

But I would enjoy the new job much more, it would be more of a challenge and I think I could go much further in it.

It's just the thought of not getting any pay bump at all is a bit grating really.

I think a few people above have given good advice, to let them make an offer (if 2nd interview goes well of course) and then negotiate on that. My faith in the recruiter is pretty much rock bottom right now.

The way you've portrayed it in the OP, the new firm seems to be quite sensible and coming across as genuinely not being able to increase budget etc rather than just playing hardball.

Given that you would enjoy it more, what I would do in the situation is ask about potential for future raises and in how long reviews would happen. They may not have budget now, but would shortly.

Please keen in mind that i've never really gone through the same, so above is what I think I would do in your situation (for me, enjoying the job is quite important so even if same salary, if moving makes you happier, then you're better off), rather than something which has proven to work.

Schlong&Stable · 1 Feb 2016 at 16:57

You need to enter salary negotiations as if you're Conan; don't stop until you hear the lamentation of their women. Faint heart never won fair maiden and what not.

Syla5 · 1 Feb 2016 at 17:05

if you get the job the recruiter gets paid. If he thinks you will go for the job he wont care about sticking up for your financial side of the deal, he will make out that this is honestly the best they will offer you and try and soften you down to this new level and hope you accept.

If you are not unhappy about your current job, then don't settle for your current salary elsewhere. You want at least [X], preferably [X]+something, and not [X]-3.2!

cadmunkey · 1 Feb 2016 at 17:23

I dealt with a lot of recruiters when I first went freelance, one thing I quickly learned is they always lie about potential salary.
Chalk it down to experience and walk away, you never know they may come back to you at a later date.

HangTime · 1 Feb 2016 at 18:13

My take on this is that unless the new job is going to be massively better for you from a career perspective, I would stick to your guns. The reason I say this is that if you join on a low salary, you may never get to the level you believe you are worth while you stay in that role. If they are having to stretch and negotiate to reach a mediocre salary, then the chances are there will be only minimal pay rises in future.

Getting only minimal pay rises in future isn't a problem if you are getting paid a decent wage (e.g. if they negotiated down from X+12 to say X+10), but when you need to play catchup just to get up to the level you deserve, you don't want to be going down that route.

D.P. · 1 Feb 2016 at 18:20

What salary expectation do you have? Work out that, tell the employer that is a hard limit and they can take it or leave.

fendi · 1 Feb 2016 at 19:33

odds on the employer is using more than 1 agency to fill the position. the recruiter is working for the employer not you. if they can fill the job with the right experience for less money than recruiter 2, then there is more chance of the employer using recruiter 1 next time.

tell them what salary you want and stick to it.

BennyC · 1 Feb 2016 at 19:36

HangTime said:
My take on this is that unless the new job is going to be massively better for you from a career perspective, I would stick to your guns. The reason I say this is that if you join on a low salary, you may never get to the level you believe you are worth while you stay in that role. If they are having to stretch and negotiate to reach a mediocre salary, then the chances are there will be only minimal pay rises in future.

Getting only minimal pay rises in future isn't a problem if you are getting paid a decent wage (e.g. if they negotiated down from X+12 to say X+10), but when you need to play catchup just to get up to the level you deserve, you don't want to be going down that route.

This.

If they can't afford you now or aren't prepared to pay your fair value then the future of your payslip doesn't look bright under them.

dowie · 1 Feb 2016 at 19:57

Sudden said:
Given that you would enjoy it more, what I would do in the situation is ask about potential for future raises and in how long reviews would happen. They may not have budget now, but would shortly.

if they're not willing to budge much on salary now don't expect much in future reviews - it is budgeting for one new person after all not splitting up a finite annual raise pool across a team, if they can't push for more then the hiring manager is politically weak which doesn't give much confidence he can fight for OP in future either

fact is your biggest rises are often going to be from moving jobs, once you've agreed on a salary for a role don't expect it to change much (other than a token few % annually) unless you get yourself promoted or move again

hiring managers, recruiters can tell you anything they like about what might happen in future, if you don't want to be a sucker then get the salary right now or it isn't likely to happen