Sam Allardyce - Sacked as England manager amid corruption investigation

Our latest #football4sale allegations concern Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink at QPR, Tommy Wright of Barnsley and Leeds United's Massimo Cellino

Shock.

I've seen the Cellino video, or at least the Telegraph's edited cut of it. For once I don't believe he's broke the rules. He's very opinionated and maybe going against the FL's 'ethics' (if they have any!!) but I don't believe he's broke any rules?

This is coming from a Leeds fan who's very much anti-Cellino.
 
Same with Hasselbaink, though I haven't seen any video on it yet, supposedly he was again offered money to go speak somewhere in the middle east on a day off. QPR have said he has no control of transfers and that he has a clause in his contract to go do things like speaking engagements.

I've been trying to point out, companies paying for access to people is insanely common in football and the business world in general. It doesn't matter what some company wants you to do. For instance they could offer 55k to come speak for a few hours to some people in Singapore... to which they say hey, can you buy our players, and some manager plays along and says sure, takes the 55k for speaking to them then never actually you know, buys a player.

Rich people throw money around for meetings, there is no implicit legal commitment to go ahead and do something that breaks FA rules so why the hell not take the meeting.

This was my issue with the Fat Sam piling on, I hate the guy in every sense, but the video did nothing but say he'd be willing(again with FA permission) to go do some meet and greets. Famous/powerful people get offers to come speak all the time, most accept a lot of them because it's basically free money, it's a ridiculous thing and I hate the way the world works, but that's common and nothing dodgy.

The Telegraph is implying that taking money to take some meetings(common and nothing illegal) implies they will absolutely take bungs and do other dodgy things(less common and not connected at all). All their headlines are saying look, this guy is going to take money therefore he's corrupt... then bury somewhere deep in the article that in Fat Sams case, it was money purely for some meet and greets and he said a categorical no to bungs.

I've seen basically zero evidence of anything even remotely corrupt, but a paper screaming corrupt, showing videos of money offers but not making clear that zero money was offered for actually corrupt things. It's a smear campaign that is working extremely well.
 
I've seen the Cellino video, or at least the Telegraph's edited cut of it. For once I don't believe he's broke the rules. He's very opinionated and maybe going against the FL's 'ethics' (if they have any!!) but I don't believe he's broke any rules?

This is coming from a Leeds fan who's very much anti-Cellino.

I've only just watched the video, they are again framing it as dodgy but he says, if you want a share of the profits, buy in... it's that simple. That is how football works. If you want a share of the profits of a business, you buy into that business.

The guy taking a 5k bung specifically to get players into his club, or to help, that is dodgy as hell. 55k to go talk to some people is not, neither is saying, if I sell you 20% of the club, you're entitled to 20% of the profits on players.

This is where the whole 'sting' and all the articles are really ******* me off, they are trying to muddle completely legal things and normal business, with bungs and illegal activity.

The Leeds guy offered to 'get around the rules' as the telegraph say, but offering a standard and completely legal deal to buy part of the club to share in the profits. THey keep framing getting around the rules as illegal as they did with Fat Sam but there is zero actual evidence or even implication they mean doing so illegally or by breaking FA rules.

It shouldn't be a surprise that QPR said Hasselbaink did nothing wrong and had a clause in his contract that he can accept such speaking gigs and most managers take such work on the side. The one guy directly fired now was literally caught accepting a bung. Allardyce specifically rejected a bung when offered and told them no multiple times and to never talk about it again... but he got fired because the Telegraph framed paid meet and greets and 'getting around the third party ownership rules' as dodgy when they aren't.

Even the Barnsley guy, people need to realise exactly what he said. There is a world of difference between saying, "if you give me £5k I can tell you who i think are good players the club needs and if you want to try and sign them and get involved that is on you", and "for 5k you give me a list of players you want us to buy and I'll try and convince the boss to buy them".

One is more than anything else, just advice. That is in general what paid meet and greets in any industry are about, getting the ear and knowledge of the person you are paying. But influence is a very different thing. You can go to meet an investment group and say, if you want my advice, Iwobi, Ihaenacho and 5 other players are top rising stars who will go very far in the game. You should totally try to sign them up because their value will increase. You can also go to meet an investment group and say, give me a list of 5 players you act as agents for who you want my club to buy, I'll go back and try and convince my bosses to buy them. The former is not wrong, the latter is very wrong. One is paying for advice, it's consulting, the world revolves around this and is in no way improper, the latter is offering to use their influence in an unprofessional way, against what his bosses pay him for.

I'm sure I remember something along the lines of Wenger giving Pulis some advice to buy that defence midfielder whose name I can't remember. I'm not suggesting it was paid at all, just that advice is fine, it can be paid or unpaid. Where it would be dodgy is if Wenger was paid by an investment group to give that advice to Pulis to get him to sign the player so the investment gorup could profit. Advice, fine even paid advice is fine, it's when you pay for undue influence that you get dodgy.

Now you can certainly imply that the Barnsley guy taking 5k and specifically talking about players and spicy deals means he'd also take money to try to sign players that he had no interest in other than financial gain.
 
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He's lost his job, reputation, will have dim future job prospects in the world of football, all for the sake of five grand.

Yep hardly seems worth it, as stated by someone earlier I wonder how much of this is/was common practice but now there's a public outcry will come to light.

People used to ask me why I bought Hdds and monitors etc. when I could 'get them' from work and I used to reply that "is it worth losing my job for a £60 Hdd?" I never thought it was.
 
It's crazy why people would risk so much, for so little.

Someone was dismissed where I work for fiddling £100 and lost a 65k plus a year job. Some people seem to think they are either a) bullet proof or b) life owes them and they can take what they want.

Bonkers.
 
Next up: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/premier-league-coach-embroiled-in-bribery-scandal/

The assistant manager of a Premier League football club was filmed offering advice on giving bribes to officials at other clubs during a conversation about signing players, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Eric Black, who works at Southampton FC, suggested that “a couple of grand” might persuade a colleague at another club to pass on information about players to a company that wanted to represent footballers.
 
Next up: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/premier-league-coach-embroiled-in-bribery-scandal/

The assistant manager of a Premier League football club was filmed offering advice on giving bribes to officials at other clubs during a conversation about signing players, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Eric Black, who works at Southampton FC, suggested that “a couple of grand” might persuade a colleague at another club to pass on information about players to a company that wanted to represent footballers.

This is another truly shockingly awful article. The guy on video basically says, this guy is known for picking great players, have a talk to him and he can recommend some players for you guys to sign. He recommended a good scout who might be willing to work, nothing else. He did nothing illegal in the slightest and the guy he recommended wasn't for a bribe as the article claims but for player recommendation.

2000k to get this guy to sign a player you have is a bribe, 2000k for a player he thinks is worth signing up to your agency... is scouting.

The article says at the end that Southampton(I presume) state that the 2k was in reference to freelance scouting work. Again I'll go back to Wenger, he recommended a player to Pulis to sign, that is freelance scout work except it wasn't paid(presumably). If the assistant manager who he recommended has a contract that allows for freelance scout work(which if it does and this guy knows... which it sounds like he does this work) then absolutely nothing close to illegal has happened.

The Telegraph is again painting literally any money changing hands in football as bribes and bungs. Even the Barnsley one is questionable because again I believe he said 5k to recommend players, not to buy players they own. The only one so far that actually is extremely dodgy and almost certainly illegal thing they've got on tape is this Belgian second division club.
 
Aye beginning to look like the paper went to great lengths (cost) to do an investigation into football corruption and didn't find much if anything and are now just trying to fabricate stories.
 
been away for a few days, this was utterly shocking, what an absolute pillock Big Sam is, I think he is finished in football, his reputation is in tatters.
 

Any reason why we're meant to believe him now? I read another report about this earlier in which he also claims Tommy Wright took the £5k off the reporters and then handed it over to him. Yeah right. His livelihood is on the line - he's got to back track and cover his arse or no other managers will deal with him again. They probably won't anyway.

It's very possible that he was just bragging and making things up but I'm not going to take his word for it now. I read that he was involved in match fixing in Italy 10 years ago - he doesn't seem the most trustworthy guy around.
 
Aye beginning to look like the paper went to great lengths (cost) to do an investigation into football corruption and didn't find much if anything and are now just trying to fabricate stories.

I honestly think that is what it is, someone said lets do a big investigation, they threw some money at what they thought was a big story. What they found was a few people willing to recommend scouts, a few others willing to say how to invest in players LEGALLY which sure, gets around third party rules... but is still completely allowed. They've been disappointed with what they found so they've dressed up the footage they have by preparing you to see corruption then showing a clip of asking for money.

They are massively massively trying to influence your perception before watching the video.

There is also plenty of people in the world who will talk themselves up when they in reality don't do any of these things. Talking to a banned agent who has little power any more, you're making him feel powerful and interesting again. Offering him money for information, what happens if you say no one takes bungs, nothing to be said....

I've seen it in other industries, with acquaintances, people lie and exaggerate all the time to seem more interesting.

I really think the big one is the southampton guy. They literally headlined the story "this guy explains how to give bribes", when the footage clearly shows him saying this guy could recommend players to you, zero mention of bungs or bribes, just this guy might be interesting in some work. He may well have meant dodgy work, but he could just as easily have meant freelance scouting work which is common. There is zero evidence which way he meant it so the paper stating he was explaining how to give bribes is incredibly dishonest.


As you say, I think they came up with almost nothing, were disappointed and are being exceptionally dishonest in their interpretation of these videos.

Baz, people talk themselves up to appear more powerful, and he was doing this to a company who was potentially offering him money to use his own influence. You realise he could effectively just be conning this far east company for payments with zero intention of doing anything dodgy, which while dishonest and immoral, isn't against any rules and certainly not football rules. You know, he says a bunch of crap, then says if you give me half a million I'd do my best to get some of your players signed... then never actually gets any players signed but says he tried his best.

Though again, if he was telling the truth, why is all the Telegraphs footage so lacking, they state everything is bribes but the footage clearly shows otherwise. How have they not got these people accepting 'bungs' clearly for preferential treatment. They got one idiot(the Belgian guy) to do it, everything else was basically saying nothing dodgy though they tried to dress them all up as dodgy. If these guys were corrupt how did they now get any of the named people on camera accepting money specifically for something illegal? More than that, because that might be difficult, why did they lie about the Southampton player explaining how to give out bribes when he said nothing of the sort.

If the Telegraphs story was more honest I'd be more inclined to believe them, saying honestly that it's hard to get anyone on camera but the payments being suggested should push the FA and police to investigate any payments taken, investigate if they have accounts that show more income than they've declared, etc. But they've bent the truth so damn far it makes me believe there is basically nothing to the story and it's all implications and basically lying by the reporters.
 
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been away for a few days, this was utterly shocking, what an absolute pillock Big Sam is, I think he is finished in football, his reputation is in tatters.

Since when does that matter, with his knowledge he could easily find work as a transfer consultant ;)

The only person who I know who's career ended in tatters was Ron Atkinson.
 
Baz, people talk themselves up to appear more powerful, and he was doing this to a company who was potentially offering him money to use his own influence. You realise he could effectively just be conning this far east company for payments with zero intention of doing anything dodgy

It's very possible that he was just bragging and making things up but I'm not going to take his word for it now. I read that he was involved in match fixing in Italy 10 years ago - he doesn't seem the most trustworthy guy around.
 
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