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Saudi Arabia: Will they ever be "allowed" Nuclear arms?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NVP, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Rroff

    Man of Honour

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    Posts: 63,812

    Yeah there are various cubes of Uranium floating about from Nazi era reactor experimentation.
     
  2. ianh

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 12, 2007

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    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    He meant that if they had Uranium stored legally (from a power plant etc) then it it would be quite "easy" to create a crude weapon in secrecy, using for example a "Gun" style device once you've extracted enough weapons grade material from your legal "power plant" material - only it's not that easy at all as it takes a long time, requires lots of very noticeable tech which you have to buy, and gives you a huge secrecy problem.
     
  3. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,552

    Location: Wales


    Same as all the other middle east nuclear programs, have Israel bomb it while we all tut tut over how naughty Israel is while we restock their bomb shed.
     
  4. Colonel_Klinck

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

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    Location: London, UK

    And then spend the next 50 years fighting an insurgency and terrorist attacks as the whole Islamic world fights back. SA has the 2 most holy places in Islam. The US still hasn't "won" in Iraq or Afghanistan, 2 counties no one really cares about. US flags flying over Mecca and Medina and watch it all kick off and rightly so as well. Using arms to take what you want should never be encouraged or tolerated.
     
  5. Rroff

    Man of Honour

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    Depends how it was approached - though if it was the US going in they aren't exactly known for finesse. The UK and France administered huge parts of the ME at various times in history - this made me LOL a bit on reading it:

     
  6. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

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    Devils advocate here but why not?

    Surely by planning and mounting the technological and logistical challenge of an invasion/successful war you're really proving you would make better use of those resources in the long run.
     
  7. Efour

    Capodecina

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    Location: Norrbotten, Sweden.

    :p exactly.
     
  8. Rroff

    Man of Honour

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    Posts: 63,812

    On a tangent I've always found it interesting that often intellectuals view is that a civilisation at its pinnacle of advancement would be one that had divested itself of all weapons - but IMO it would be one that could wield the most deadly weapons with absolute responsibility and would have no need to get rid of them.
     
  9. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

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    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    No. It's in the best interests of the West to keep Saudi Arabia weak, and reliant on our military power for their defence.

    They're also stark raving mad, so it's not a great idea to give them the nuclear button.
     
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 20,442

    A huge secrecy problem for Saudi Arabia? Hahah... farce.

    The US will hide it for them while they murder journos and coerce politicians, whatever black book Riyadh has on establishment figures in the West will be overflowing at this point.
     
  11. Colonel_Klinck

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

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    Location: London, UK

    Rule of law? It’s agreed you can’t just go and take something because you’re the bigger boy. We are meant to have moved past such things. If that is tolerated it can just become a free for all.

    ^^ This. Although we are a long way from being that civilised imo.
     
  12. ianh

    Mobster

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    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    I'm not sure places like Russia or China would be happy allowing SA membership of the Nuke club, there's more to secrecy than purely Western interests.
     
  13. StriderX

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 20,442

    Maybe, but that's assuming you know what Russia and China think, they don't seem to mind North Korea or Iran doing it.

    Russia is currently on the war path for defending sovereign nations right to exist and China doesn't seem to care.
     
  14. ianh

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 12, 2007

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    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    I can only guess but I'd suggest that as NK/Iran are proxies of Russia/China they (Ru/CN) probably feel passively with NK owning and Iran attempting to own as they may feel they have an element of control over the proxies. However, SA is a western backed state so it'd be good for Ru/CN if they could cause a ruckus between the West and SA by leaking any Nuke deals for everyone to see and then condemn. That'd be my take on the real politik of the situation, whether it's right/wrong is just a guess.
     
  15. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 694

    Isn't Plutonium P-239 made from reactor grade uranium U-238 in the reactor?

    I'm no physicist but I was always to believe it was U-235 and P-239 that was used in warheads.
     
  16. ianh

    Mobster

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    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    It's from wiki but here you go - "The fissioning of an atom of uranium-235 in the reactor of a nuclear power plant produces two to three neutrons, and these neutrons can be absorbed by uranium-238 to produce plutonium-239 and other isotopes. In any operating nuclear reactor containing U-238, some plutonium-239 will accumulate in the nuclear fuel but the amounts are small, only around 0.8% of the total waste"
     
  17. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 12, 2004

    Posts: 27,774

    Yes, but obtaining uranium and plutonium is not particularly difficult. The problem is that it is impossible to separate out different isotopes of an element (enrichment) chemically, it has to be done based on weight i.e. using centrifuges, which require massive facilities and expertise to do. Even Iran as a nation state was unable to enrich uranium despite the USA managing to accomplish it in practically the stone age.
     
  18. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 694

    Thanks, I didn't know the enrichment process was that difficult if you already had the reactor infrastructure. I thought a reprocessing plant came as part of course.

    My dad was an engineer at Sizewell so I spent my youth visiting the open days watching the classic info vids on the process. All looks easy on an animation.
     
  19. CaptainRAVE

    Man of Honour

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    As the technology becomes more and more accessible, it is a scary thought any of these countries having them.
     
  20. muon

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