Poll: Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2021, Jeddah - Race 21

[Bug One]

Flat wrong and embarrassed or deliberately trolling, what's worse

I know it wasn't a brake test, although Vettel thought differently at the time. I knew it'd get the Hamilton fans raging though.

It is the closest thing in recent history I can think of that's in any way similar. Both drivers were playing games to get an advantage.

 

[Feek]

True. Remind me.... he got a 5 second for leaving the track and gaining an advantage during the race. Then he got a 10 second one for the brake test but that was applied retrospectively after the race? It's all honestly a blur now lol.

Aye, sounds about right. Valtteri was more than fifteen seconds behind so the penalties make no difference to the outcome.

 

[jaybee]

Max in an interview on eurosport (may be elsewhere too):

"I don't think the 5 second penalty is correct but I don't want to talk about it too much as they don't deserve any word coming out of my mouth".

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

There's no new evidence to base an appeal on.

I thought that was only needed if an incident was investigated, and no penalty was issued?
Unless I am mistaken!

 

[Kenai]

I know it wasn't a brake test, although Vettel thought differently at the time. I knew it'd get the Hamilton fans raging though.

It is the closest thing in recent history I can think of that's in any way similar.

Which interestingly earned Vettel a 10 second stop-go, significantly worse than the 10s time penalty dished out here.

Presumably because there could be no doubt that what Vettel did was a deliberate action to cause a collision, whereas here only Max truly knows if it was an unfortunate coincidence that he braked hard at that particular moment or if he meant to cause a collision by doing it.

edit - random thought on that topic, I think it was mentioned a run through the pits here lost 23 seconds not including the stop - if you added 33s to his time instead of the 10s penalty as if he'd had a 10s stop go in the race, he'd have been in the clutches of Leclerc in 7th - that would have really shaken things up.

 

[Kenai]

Max in an interview on eurosport (may be elsewhere too):

"I don't think the 5 second penalty is correct but I don't want to talk about it too much as they don't deserve any word coming out of my mouth".

He said the same in the press briefing after the race.

"He had a run [on me] a bit like Brazil and of course I braked late and got a little bit off line and had a moment and went wide. But he also didn't make the corner, so we both basically missed the corner and then I don't think it's fair to say I got the penalty.

"I find it interesting I am the one who gets penalised when both of us ran outside the white lines. In Brazil it was fine and now suddenly I get a penalty for it.

"You could clearly see we both didn't make the corner. But I don't want to spend too much time on it. We both have to move forward. We are talking more about white lines and penalties than proper F1 racing and that's a little bit of a shame."

The bizarre decision in Brazil has very clearly reinforced his belief that it's ok to go steaming down the inside without a hope of making the corner as a legitimate way to defend a corner and that by forcing his opponent off in the process makes it all square because 'we both went off'.

 

[jaybee]

In the list of things you can do on a race track that are bad, I would have thought mucking about like that on the racing line of a straight on the fastest street circuit in F1, would be right up there on the naughtiness scale. I can't think of many things worse. A 10 second time penalty seems not enough. That should be a stop go at minimum.

 

[Psycho Ned]

I would kind of like to know what was going through Max's head at that moment. Cos if he wanted to let Lewis by before the DRS line surely it would have been just as easy to get right out of the way and let him past? Even if that meant pretty much coming to a halt.

As it was he was dawdling up the middle of the road, giving off mixed messages where he was going then finally hitting the brakes when Lewis was right behind him! I'll give him the benefit of the doubt he wasn't trying to crash Lewis out of the race as that would be a slam dunk massive penalty/race ban if they'd both retired from the race after that.

From Lewis's point of view I guess after 20 races going up against this guy the first thing you think coming up behind him going slow in the middle of the track is 'what angle is he working?' or 'he's going to crash into me when I go by!'

In the cold light of day I'm still amazed Lewis's front wing made it to the end in one piece! I'd be putting that thing in a trophy cabinet.

 

[Feek]

In the cold light of day I'm still amazed Lewis's front wing made it to the end in one piece!

And even more incredibly, it got him the fastest lap.

 

[Flibster]

And even more incredibly, it got him the fastest lap.

Merc have said that the damage cost Hamilton 0.4s per lap. So that fastest lap could have been immense.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

What's gone on this season, and especially the accusations and whinging from both camps needs to stop. Nobody is winning and it's giving all involved parties and brands a bad name. Not just Marko/Horner/Verstappen but Wolff/Hamilton have been as bad. Hamilton's games have been much more subtle, but in the last three races he could have had three drive through penalties for not keeping within 10 car lengths on formation laps (twice in Brazil, once yesterday) and Bottas's games behind the safety car (same rules apply - 10 car lengths) before the red flag wasn't even noted (hurt Norris particularly and might have stopped Verstappen pitting).

Technical regulations and the requirement to stay within 10 car lengths cover the FORMATION lap only. The red flag and standing start were not classed as a formation lap, it’s actually classed as a lap of the race…. So no requirement.

It’s a quirky rule but Hamilton did nothing wrong there. Masi even communicated this to RB during the message before the race was restarted.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Just caught up with the highlights. What a chaotic race...

Agreed with a few other posters, Max is his own worst enemy at times. Cracking start from 3rd to get to the front at one of the Red Flag starts, cunning to let Lewis past and immediately repass him, but then goes and acts like a bit of a prat with slowing down in the centre of the track and slightly jinking about before hitting the brakes. I don't see it as a deliberate brake test, clearly was down to the DRS - but stupid of him. Should have just stayed to one side of the track and gone for the repass.

I still feel Max needs to get a proper penalty to teach him that some of his defences are entirely unreasonable. Jumping the chicane straight across the front of Lewis so he got stuck behind Ocon was dirty, and then for the second race in a row making absolutely zero effort to make a corner when Lewis was going for the overtake on the outside - running both drivers off of the track? The FIA need to clamp down on that sort of driving.

Some may argue that it's tough racing. Which I'd back if you didn't sit there whinging over the radio that the driver behind you on a outlap isn't within 10 car lengths. Either race hard, or don't. Stop picking and choosing. Extremely annoying hearing the drivers and managers constantly complain over the radio.

 

[Bug One]

Which interestingly earned Vettel a 10 second stop-go, significantly worse than the 10s time penalty dished out here.

That was for the afters though, not the going into the back collision.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Merc have said that the damage cost Hamilton 0.4s per lap. So that fastest lap could have been immense.

On used hards. That’s some good pace. I love angry Hamilton, he channels it entirely into pace. A good 1-2 start for merc in Abu Dhabi would be perfect.

 

[Scam]

"I don't think the 5 second penalty is correct but I don't want to talk about it too much as they don't deserve any word coming out of my mouth".

The arrogance..

I would kind of like to know what was going through Max's head at that moment. Cos if he wanted to let Lewis by before the DRS line surely it would have been just as easy to get right out of the way and let him past? Even if that meant pretty much coming to a halt.

I honestly think he's not that bright and is struggling to keep up mentally with it all. It shows in his radio messages all day long. He's naturally talented for sure, but he's got a long way to go to match a lot of the drivers on the grid when it comes to mental ability etc. Like I said above, his fun and games on the straight was like a petulant child being told to give a toy back to a playmate - he chucked it on the floor and tried to stomped off.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Question: In situations where the red flag is shown, the race order should be determine from the last full completed lap.

So why was Ocon put on pole? They didn’t complete a full racing lap after the standing start.

 

[Kenai]

That was for the afters though, not the going into the back collision.

There's a reason for that

 

[Kenai]

Question: In situations where the red flag is shown, the race order should be determine from the last full completed lap.

So why was Ocon put on pole? They didn’t complete a full racing lap after the standing start.

I think the only answer here is 'because Masi'

Edit - that being said somewhat tongue in cheek, the actual regs seem a bit more vague than 'last full completed lap'.

In all cases the order will be taken at the last point at which it was possible to determine the position of all cars. All such cars will then be permitted to resume the race.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Question: In situations where the red flag is shown, the race order should be determine from the last full completed lap.

So why was Ocon put on pole? They didn’t complete a full racing lap after the standing start.

Masi is making it up as he goes as long. It’s a shame that so many decisions are ‘at his discretion’. How on earth he holds that position is beyond me.

 

[Skyboat]

Probably in your head more than FA.

whoooosh