Save the NHS!

joeyjojo · 25 Feb 2015 at 11:12

Dolph said:
As for treatment, I advocate a European model of state funding/independent provision, not a us model. To see if your problems are a real concern, we can look to France and Germany to see if they suffer the issue.

Who sets doctors' wages in France? I couldn't find the information.

holymonk · 25 Feb 2015 at 11:22

Good God I think Dolph needs his own little sub-forum. That DM tripe you posted is completely political. I'd rather have a regulator that was tough and avoided another mid staffs, its never going to make any friends, its like the police damned if they do (for DM subscribers like you) damned if they don't.

Tunney · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:49

Dolph said:
As for treatment, I advocate a European model of state funding/independent provision, not a us model. To see if your problems are a real concern, we can look to France and Germany to see if they suffer the issue.

The Tories are pushing ahead with this idea and are finding that it's more expensive than traditional NHS care. Contracts are being awarded to private firms despite the NHS delivering the same service for millions less.

We have a very efficient health care system in this country. At a time when costs are increasing, why would you want to make health care more expensive?

Hagar · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:54

We shall see soon when Manchester gets its own Health Budget covering the NHS and social care. The be run by the local authorities rather than government. Whether it will be efficient, well run and suit the local population.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-31615218

Ayahuasca · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:56

Tunney said:
We have a very efficient health care system in this country. At a time when costs are increasing, why would you want to make health care more expensive?

Because the expense will be paid by us, the public.

Whereas all these firms some of which are connected to those who want the health service to be privatised will be making huge profits.

Xordium · 25 Feb 2015 at 15:17

Dolph said:
a group should not be allowed to dominate their profession for their own benefit.

So let's stop the bankers getting bonuses then by use of "force" and corporate board members from getting bonuses. I mean they are dominating positions for their own benefit are they not.

You put forward these arguments until someone turns them around on the things you care about but strangely don't care about you and then you don't seem to be able to answer the questions.

Any impartial coverage of this one yet anyway?

Dolph · 3 Mar 2015 at 16:59

Another day, another scandalous report of substandard care in the NHS. I trust a guardian link will suffice?

Morecambe Bay report exposes 'lethal mix' of failures that led to baby deaths

http://gu.com/p/46av2

Dolph · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:01

Tunney said:
The Tories are pushing ahead with this idea and are finding that it's more expensive than traditional NHS care. Contracts are being awarded to private firms despite the NHS delivering the same service for millions less.

We have a very efficient health care system in this country. At a time when costs are increasing, why would you want to make health care more expensive?

My concern is to make healthcare more successful at preventing unnecessary deaths. For that, an increase in cost is perfectly acceptable.

Dolph · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:01

Xordium said:
So let's stop the bankers getting bonuses then by use of "force" and corporate board members from getting bonuses. I mean they are dominating positions for their own benefit are they not.

You put forward these arguments until someone turns them around on the things you care about but strangely don't care about you and then you don't seem to be able to answer the questions.

Any impartial coverage of this one yet anyway?

I didn't realise the bankers were allowed to set their own rules?

Danthus · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:41

Dolph said:
Another day, another scandalous report of substandard care in the NHS. I trust a guardian link will suffice?

Morecambe Bay report exposes 'lethal mix' of failures that led to baby deaths

http://gu.com/p/46av2

Over a period spanning both Labour and Conservative governments.

Dolph · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:43

OldCoals said:
Over a period spanning both Labour and Conservative governments.

Indeed.

Danthus · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:48

The problem is, what reform would tackle with the very basic lack of care these scandals highlight.

Dolph · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:56

OldCoals said:
The problem is, what reform would tackle with the very basic lack of care these scandals highlight.

Ensuring poor hospitals fail, ensuring the service is structured to put the patient at the centre and ensuring that whistleblowers and patients are listened to rather than ignored and silenced would be my key changes.

Danthus · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:01

Dolph said:
Ensuring poor hospitals fail, ensuring the service is structured to put the patient at the centre and ensuring that whistleblowers and patients are listened to rather than ignored and silenced would be my key changes.

How does that stop a nurse deciding they can't be bothered?

Trifid · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:11

OldCoals said:
How does that stop a nurse deciding they can't be bothered?

Appropriate management and sufficient staffing levels.

Is there a way to raise concerns direct with Monitor instead of internally?

Danthus · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:15

Trifid said:
Appropriate management and sufficient staffing levels.

Is there a way to raise concerns direct with Monitor instead of internally?

More staff doesn't stop a bad employee being bad.

scorza · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:22

Thing is, as tragic and unacceptable as the Morecambe Bay scandal is, this is where the public sector really has the advantage over the private sector. At least with the NHS we know there's a full, thorough and independent inquiry into the tragedy and we can see the results. If it were a private sector hospital I wouldn't be so sure that they wouldn't pay the family off so as not to damage their corporate reputation.

Dolph · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:26

OldCoals said:
How does that stop a nurse deciding they can't be bothered?

It doesn't, but it means there are more likely to be consequences. Correct management of individuals through disciplinary and capability processes should deal with individual issues of poor performance.

Dolph · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:28

scorza said:
Thing is, as tragic and unacceptable as the Morecambe Bay scandal is, this is where the public sector really has the advantage over the private sector. At least with the NHS we know there's a full, thorough and independent inquiry into the tragedy and we can see the results. If it were a private sector hospital I wouldn't be so sure that they wouldn't pay the family off so as not to damage their corporate reputation.

I am sure that the family of those dead will be pleased by the ideological purity of the system being put over the outcomes of the system.

Danthus · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:31

scorza said:
Thing is, as tragic and unacceptable as the Morecambe Bay scandal is, this is where the public sector really has the advantage over the private sector. At least with the NHS we know there's a full, thorough and independent inquiry into the tragedy and we can see the results. If it were a private sector hospital I wouldn't be so sure that they wouldn't pay the family off so as not to damage their corporate reputation.

Dolph said:
It doesn't, but it means there are more likely to be consequences. Correct management of individuals through disciplinary and capability processes should deal with individual issues of poor performance.

Dolph said:
I am sure that the family of those dead will be pleased by the ideological purity of the system being put over the outcomes of the system.

You aren't a million miles apart in the first two posts.