Save the NHS!

[Destination]

Bizzarely I doubt it.
I am quite certain our special and black ops come form a budget within a sealed folder, and I doubt they pay fifty pounds for a lightbulb.

As for the we overpay to make sure our supplier stays in business, what a ridiculous situation to be in! The rest ofbthe world is full of suppliers also, and I think you will find that few medical equipment providers that actually make and produce correctbequipment will go bust.

As for the instruments made in Pakistan, they are not fit for purpose, and thus won't be paid for, a simple inspection of the materials revealed that. You want approved, seek bs marks etc, but don't pay list price when no one else does.

 

[Fr0dders]

if you want to talk about not fit for purpose look at the disaster that was NPFIT - and the £12 billion they wasted on that.

 

[scorza]

Bizzarely I doubt it.
I am quite certain our special and black ops come form a budget within a sealed folder, and I doubt they pay fifty pounds for a lightbulb.

As for the we overpay to make sure our supplier stays in business, what a ridiculous situation to be in! The rest ofbthe world is full of suppliers also, and I think you will find that few medical equipment providers that actually make and produce correctbequipment will go bust.

Sigh that's not what I said. The NHS will likely do a credit check on a potential supplier and judge how likely it is they will stay in business. Now for lightbulb suppliers it probably doesn't matter too much but as I said they didn't buy a lightbulb did they? the NHS buys a service from a private company that offers lightbulb replacements and lots of other things. If that service company goes bankrupt then there are very real consequences for the NHS.

As for the instruments made in Pakistan, they are not fit for purpose, and thus won't be paid for, a simple inspection of the materials revealed that. You want approved, seek bs marks etc, but don't pay list price when no one else does.

This is the article associated with the Panorama programme: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13894880 That you think these sort of defects could be found by a simple goods-in inspection indicates you have no idea about the procurement process.

This highlights my point also - no doubt some bright spark thought they could improve the NHS' efficiency by importing surgical equipment from abroad without doing the proper checks on the supplier in the first place. The cheapest product is not always the best value product.

 

[Lindo]

If you want to adopt a more 'European' system then get your wallet out and pay some more ******* tax! Typical British attitude when we want things but dislike paying for them. The NHS has never done me any wrong and if it's always there when we need it, I'm not interested in the numbers. I was bought up to believe it put people before profit, which seems to be a dying value in these times...

and personally, I don't care about improving financial efficiency. After the mess of what happens when private companies get involved with socialized projects, I don't want there hands near it. I think it'd be more of an up roar if we were going to hire out the easier military work to mercenaries and the government wash it's hands of there doings. Which is theatrically the same.

 

[Destination]

Scorza you missed my point, as with the mod, as with the nhs, as with main civil service depts, they pay too high an amount from their current suppliers as they dont argue the point. It is no one job to do it, so no one does it.
Transfer to people whi already run their own depts or surgeries, might help, a little, but it will only scratch the surface.

You dont have to buy cheap foreign imports to save money, you can save money on everything you buy already.

As i said we pay a tenner less per box of local anesthetic than the biggest hospital in northern ireland, thats a saving of fourty percent, we buy from the same company, through the same rep. Why do we pay less, we asked for bulk discount.
The hospital is sure to buy hundreds times the amounts we do, maybe thousands.

This isnt about gyne instruments from pakistan as opposed to good british steel, this is about common sence. That starts by outting people in charge of budgets and currently the system doesnt do this effectively,

 

[The_Abyss]

A start could be made by ending once and for all the grossly unjust and expensive taxpayer funded defined benefit pensions that NHS staff enjoy. For current staff as well as new. Get in the real world with the rest of us.

 

[Natwee]

A start could be made by ending once and for all the grossly unjust and expensive taxpayer funded defined benefit pensions that NHS staff enjoy. For current staff as well as new. Get in the real world with the rest of us.

The NHS pension scheme has changed considerably from what it was.

 

[PikeyPriest]

Average time to treat increased under Labour, because they cut headline waiting lists by making people with urgent conditions wait longer, and people with minor conditions wait less time.

The definition of an urgent surgical case is when a patient gets operated within 24 hours of admission after resuscitation. No minor condition would delay this type of operation.

I have never seen a scheduled operation (ie breast/bowel cancer) be delayed to avoid another simple case breaching and they are scheduled via different lists for this priority to be taken in to account.

Please provide evidence to backup the facts that you spout.

 

[PikeyPriest]

Sorry, I didn't make clear that I am not talking about emergency healthcare, just in/out patient. A&E and paramedical services is more complicated, I am not sure about that part yet.

Its not that simple. Most private hospitals have little or no facilities for HDU/ITU care. If someone suffers a complication or becomes unwell after surgery, they get transferred to the nearest NHS hospital for further care.

 

[scorza]

Scorza you missed my point, as with the mod, as with the nhs, as with main civil service depts, they pay too high an amount from their current suppliers as they dont argue the point. It is no one job to do it, so no one does it.
Transfer to people whi already run their own depts or surgeries, might help, a little, but it will only scratch the surface.

You dont have to buy cheap foreign imports to save money, you can save money on everything you buy already.

As i said we pay a tenner less per box of local anesthetic than the biggest hospital in northern ireland, thats a saving of fourty percent, we buy from the same company, through the same rep. Why do we pay less, we asked for bulk discount.
The hospital is sure to buy hundreds times the amounts we do, maybe thousands.

This isnt about gyne instruments from pakistan as opposed to good british steel, this is about common sence. That starts by outting people in charge of budgets and currently the system doesnt do this effectively,

I understand your point completely - you're looking at the cost of product when you should be thinking about the cost of managing all your suppliers across the whole of the NHS. Decentralising procurement responsibility (what you're proposing) will result in better quality but it will be much more inefficient and end up costing the NHS more. Centralised procurement is recognised as the being the cheapest for an organisation. Personally I'd like to see the de-centralised approach adopted too but it can't be argued it should be done as a cost saving measure.

 

[Dr. Pain]

You've misunderstood. I don't work for the NHS, I work for a private company that has a preferred laptop supplier who "overcharge" us for equipment. This is private sector best practice which it sounds like the NHS have, or are trying to, adopt. Why is it best practice? Because it brings down the total cost of procurement for the buying organisation. How? For example, a part of the procurement process should be to establish the risk of a supplier going out of business, this process can cost an organisation quite a lot of money especially if they have as many suppliers as the NHS. By reducing the number of suppliers the NHS reduces this cost. That's just one of the advantages of the preferred supplier approach.

We're not stupid you know.

The whole point of having a flaming procurement department is that if someone goes out of business they find someone else.

Thats one of the points of their jobs!!

Personally I think NHS procurement needs a massive shake up. ANYONE who signs these deals knowing how much of a rip off they are should be fired.

Procurement should be about tough and gruelling negotiations in getting the best possible deal for the NHS and the taxpayer, not just being a ****ing lazy ****wit and signing any old contract cos they can't be arsed to do their jobs properly and negotiate.

Whenever I order up stuff for us, I ALWAYS ALWAYS manage an extra discount on stuff. If you dont ask then you dont get!

Best discount I ever got for one of our bigger purchases was 41%. Had I not pushed and pushed this would have never happened.

If I can do it for my department, why cant the utterly useless, lazy ****wits who are signing off the big stuff do it?

Its pathetic. They should all be fired. THEY are part of the problem and they should be disgusted with themselves.

The NHS potentially has mega bargaining power, they should be using it.

 

[Dr. Pain]

Have you any idea how much the private healthare providers in this country rely on the NHS? Put simply, without the NHS they couldnt work. They have no emergency facilities for a start - which is why they are usually located so closely to NHS hospitals.

LOL, so true.

The majority of the consultants are NHS consultants.

Obviously nearly every single British one would have learned their trade in the NHS also.

Quite funny with all the people who think they are getting something special with private healthcare.

All they are getting is a queue skip, and perhaps a vase of flowers on the window sill.

 

[Destination]

Excellent Dr Pain, backs up exactly what I was saying.

 

[The_Abyss]

The NHS pension scheme has changed considerably from what it was.

And it is still an unfair, unaffordable and unjust defined benefit scheme that is funded by the tax payer. Get in the real world. Paying a couple of percent more and retiring a couple of years later doesn't somehow magically bring it into line with the private sector or what the country can afford.

 

[The_Abyss]

Have you any idea how much the private healthare providers in this country rely on the NHS? Put simply, without the NHS they couldnt work. They have no emergency facilities for a start - which is why they are usually located so closely to NHS hospitals.

Incredibly they are also located that close so that many of the key highly paid staff that work in them who also work for the NHS can easily get there.

 

[PikeyPriest]

And it is still an unfair, unaffordable and unjust defined benefit scheme that is funded by the tax payer. Get in the real world. Paying a couple of percent more and retiring a couple of years later doesn't somehow magically bring it into line with the private sector or what the country can afford.

Will you bring the salaries in-line with the private sector to make this fair also? You do realise that private salaries are greatly higher than NHS for nursing and doctor roles?

*edit* Nevermind. This is just a troll about how you think doctors are paid far too much money despite the fact that it takes 3-5 years (depending on banding) for doctors to get paid the same as a newly qualified tube driver.

 

[spudbynight]

I would shut down the NHS tomorrow and replace it with something that worked.

 

[PikeyPriest]

I would shut down the NHS tomorrow and replace it with something that worked.

Which would be.....

 

[PermaBanned]

You can say many things about the NHS, but that "it doesn't work" is certainly not one of them.

 

[Dr. Pain]

I would shut down the NHS tomorrow and replace it with something that worked.

Ignorance overload.

It DOES work, it just costs too much and is more inefficient than it should be. You have a nasty car accident and need emergency care? Trust me, the NHS works!

Its the non serious stuff that people have to wait for that is the majority of patients complaints.

Mainly down to the Labour government who got rid of loads of nurses and created lots of middle manager non jobs.

The consultants are grossly overworked, and so are most of the support staff around them.

Unfortunately all the target driven crap from labour created a whole load more extra work and busy bodies that we are all paying for but with no actual tangible benefit.

Oh in addition.......

Anyone who is NOT a British citizen should be made to sign treatment payment forms before we give them any medical care. Just like the states.

It really fricking riles me that some fat Nigerian bitch can come over from Nigera (so shouldnt even be here anyway) and can have FIVE kids delivered on the NHS for free effectively, as our chase up system is literally non existent.

There was a statement made by someone somewhere which I couldnt agree with more.. it was:-


The NHS is free for everyone else in the world, apart from us.

That needs to change for a start.