Save the NHS!

Freakbro · 20 Sep 2016 at 08:24

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37415587

NHS doctors told to declare income from private work

NHS England chairman Sir Malcolm Grant, who led a review on the issue, told the Times the details should be published in a hospital register from April.

Doctors said their contracts meant they had to offer extra time to the NHS before they could do private work.

Under the proposals every hospital will have to publish a register of consultants' earnings from private work next year.

About half of England's 46,000 NHS consultants are believed to do private work, on top of average earnings of £112,000 a year.

Within the review concerns were raised that some senior doctors may have been spending too much time seeing private patients while handing too much work to junior colleagues or even using NHS waiting lists to boost outside work

Anyone see any downsides to this? I have heard of a lead consultant in my local hospital who earns double his NHS salary from his private work.

Which doing extra work is fine in itself, but what gets me and leads on from this quote from the BMA

The BMA said consultants were dedicated professionals who in the vast majority of cases worked beyond their contractual hours, including at night and at weekends.

Well, for a salary of £100,000+ I expect most employees in the private sector expect to put in more than their contractual hours, so no biggie there... so where do these guys find the time to do all this private work? :eek:

Not legitimately in a lot of cases would be my opinion.

Xordium · 20 Sep 2016 at 08:32

I think it is pertinent and fair. I think you need to disclose outside interests because there is a risk of conflict of interest although I have only seen it happen once.

However, I can't help this is being use to frame jealousy and discontent over improving the patient experience or outcomes.

Dolph said:
when the participants are actually debating a position that is based on evidence.

You'll have to excuse me here but what evidence have you produced because I can't seem to find any? You are arguing from opinion. So let's not pretend otherwise eh. Feel free to show any evidence that I've missed. I am happy to accept I may have missed something.

Danthus · 20 Sep 2016 at 08:47

Right now the NHS needs a massive cash injection.

RaohNS · 20 Sep 2016 at 08:55

That's easy to do. Plenty of money to do it

Srs

Xordium · 20 Sep 2016 at 09:07

RaohNS said:
That's easy to do. Plenty of money to do it

Srs

Well actually it is easy to do you give it the same budget other countries have by ensuring the taxation is at the levels the other countries set.

Or you accept the service will not be as good because you haven't spent as much and ask for more. It's quite easy as you say ...

Cosimo · 20 Sep 2016 at 09:13

OldCoals said:
Right now the NHS needs a massive cash injection.

Has party political broadcast season started again?

It appears to need an injection over and over and over....... again, maybe they should manage it better?

RaohNS · 20 Sep 2016 at 09:22

Xordium said:
Well actually it is easy to do you give it the same budget other countries have by ensuring the taxation is at the levels the other countries set.

Or you accept the service will not be as good because you haven't spent as much and ask for more. It's quite easy as you say ...

No need to raise taxes. Just stop dropping tens of millions of pounds of bombs in the middle east.

The other option of course being to put money into social care to get beds freed up and alleviate waiting periods. There is a raft of things the government could do, but wont because they have a goal of privatisation of the NHS

Xordium · 20 Sep 2016 at 09:55

Cosimo said:
Has party political broadcast season started again?

It appears to need an injection over and over and over....... again, maybe they should manage it better?

Would you care to explain how they could manage better when the studies show it is highly efficient and offers great value when compared to other countries.

Any evidence to show that or just heresay and personal bias?

So I guess party political broadcast season has started again because people are posting unsubstantiated nonsense and personal opinion as fact rather than looking at independent evidence.

Funny how on these forums when it comes to drug legalisation posters are all 'look at the evidence' but then when it comes to something like this they just go full rhetoric.

DrToffnar · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:18

Cosimo said:
Has party political broadcast season started again?

It appears to need an injection over and over and over....... again, maybe they should manage it better?

My ma manages one of the busiest departments in the West Midlands at one of the busiest hospitals in the country. She has worked an unfathomable amount hours each and every week just to keep the place running at an efficient rate. It has undoubtedly triggered some of her more serious health issues, severe stress and anxiety as well as massive amounts of time spent away from her family.

** No personal insults - EVH **

Xordium · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:31

RaohNS said:
There is a raft of things the government could do, but wont because they have a goal of privatisation of the NHS

Yep, it's quite obvious what they will do and are doing. The problem is quite simple: people are living to older ages and older people require more expensive care. So they push back the pension ages for most and reduce the healthcare for the poorer people. This solves the pension crisis straight away - the poor don't collect one!

They are sorted because they can afford to go abroad to get treatment. The irony is the middle-class types who support this think they are okay because they have private health care in this country. What they are seemingly overlooking is private health care in this country is woeful when it comes to effective and efficient outcomes. They get their appointments quick in nice buildings and somehow equate that to effective care completely ignoring the actual important thing that one should be looking at: outcomes. :rolleyes:

Deleted member 651465 · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:32

Nothing to see here

Evole · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:36

I think saving NHS is stupid, sooner they sell it off the better. Private healthcare is by far superior.

I am healthy, why should I pay for some 80 year old geezer who lives in the hospital? He should've looked ahead and saved up for his hospitalization, sell his bungalow or something. Utterly ridiculous.

Evole · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:43

No need to raise taxes. Just stop dropping tens of millions of pounds of bombs in the middle east.

That's like saying, lets get rid of police force, spend it more on the hospital beds... Makes no sense. We are helping people in middle east to be safe and achieve democracy. This is the job of well moraled western countries is to act as world police.

The other option of course being to put money into social care to get beds freed up and alleviate waiting periods. There is a raft of things the government could do, but wont because they have a goal of privatisation of the NHS

[/QUOTE]

That is some extreme conspiracy theory you have here, do you have any verifiable research or proof?? Total crap.

Dis86 · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:44

EVH said:
Nothing to see here

Ninja!

Evole, what about when you're not healthy? Or when your old geezer is unwell?

Evole · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:47

Dis86 said:
Ninja!

Evole, what about when you're not healthy? Or when your old geezer is unwell?

Plan accordingly? It's your health, its your responsibility. Put money away for these instances.

Why should anyone be held accountable financially for other persons health? I don't know about you, but I have no desire to pay out of my pocket for a fat slob who eats mcd's and downs litres of coke with it... Smoking a pack while at it.

Neither do I want my money being spent on 16 yo getting utterly crap faced, then taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Once the parents dish out 2000+ pounds for the hospital bill, maybe some brain will start growing.

For those who are genuinely in need, set up charities. Choose who you want to help, with your own money.

Danthus · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:56

Cosimo said:
Has party political broadcast season started again?

It appears to need an injection over and over and over....... again, maybe they should manage it better?

Behind closed doors, even the Conservative Party know this.

Senior doctors and NHS officials know it, it has nothing to do with politics in one sense.

Beds are being blocked becasue people can't be discharged, people can't be discharged becasue there isn't the resource to look after patients int he community.

Danthus · 20 Sep 2016 at 10:58

Dolph said:
I would prefer to judge it from the patient's point of view, and it doesn't do very well there either. The problem is that the bma will oppose any contract constructed with the patient at the centre.

Even the Conservatives know this new contract will not deliver what they want, there are leaked documents to show this.

To paraphrase the leaks, there isn't enough money or doctors to deliver it.

Some of us knew this beforehand.

Dis86 · 20 Sep 2016 at 11:05

Evole said:
Plan accordingly? It's your health, its your responsibility. Put money away for these instances.

Why should anyone be held accountable financially for other persons health? I don't know about you, but I have no desire to pay out of my pocket for a fat slob who eats mcd's and downs litres of coke with it... Smoking a pack while at it.

Neither do I want my money being spent on 16 yo getting utterly crap faced, then taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Once the parents dish out 2000+ pounds for the hospital bill, maybe some brain will start growing.

For those who are genuinely in need, set up charities. Choose who you want to help, with your own money.

That's what the nhs is for though. Sadly the examples you've stated, i agree, are a complete abuse of it. And yeah, they're probably going a large way towards putting nails in the coffin yet nobody has the balls to do anything about it.

Rroff · 20 Sep 2016 at 11:10

Evole said:
Plan accordingly? It's your health, its your responsibility. Put money away for these instances.

If only life was that black and white - though while I agree that money shouldn't be going on those examples I can't agree with the rest of your perspective at all.

Dis86 said:
That's what the nhs is for though. Sadly the examples you've stated, i agree, are a complete abuse of it. And yeah, they're probably going a large way towards putting nails in the coffin yet nobody has the balls to do anything about it.

Its a complicated one to deal with as you risk putting people off in a real medical emergency if they think they might end up with a huge bill - but the balance certainly isn't right.

Evole · 20 Sep 2016 at 11:21

Rroff said:
If only life was that black and white - though while I agree that money shouldn't be going on those examples I can't agree with the rest of your perspective at all.

There are always going to be casualties regardless, its life. Difference is that right now, an individual who has paid immense amount of money to NHS is at great risk of being shafted due to shortages caused by these blood suckers.

It is simply not fair.

A blood sucker should face far greater risk than of a contributing individual... Right now they are on same level.

Its a toxic system that provides no incentive for the blood suckers to change, while showing absolutely no recognition to contributing members of society.

Save the NHS!

Deleted member 651465

Deleted member 651465