Scooter &/or motorbike clothing - safe and effective

[ttaskmaster]

Most people I've spoken to consider the sharp rating to be a crock of ****! Do you honestly believe a £100 sharp rated 5 Hemet will be better than a £800 shoei that's got a 4 star rating?

I've not met a single bike cop or paramedic with an Arai, Shoei or Schuberth lid - They mostly seem to choose Cabergs, with a few Nolans. This, IMO, is very telling... They're not that popular with professional riders, either.

The thing about the SHARP tests is that they are repeatable, comparable and consistent...and are independent.
It's based on road data, rather than the racetrack heritage of the big names (when was the last time a racer got their bonce bounced off the bonnet of a Chelsea Tractor?).
SHARP have no vested interest in any particular manufacturer, show exactly what they do, how they test, etc and publish everything publicly.

Manufacturers generally do not publish comparative data on their own helmets, or between theirs and other manufacturers'. They just say, "Our tests on our own products show that they are good"... !!!

Most of the £2,000 you pay for a high-end Arai is because it's a race rep paint scheme.
They even say on their own website that they have compromised structural integrity for comfort on some lids, as 'they believe' it is an acceptable trade-off!

SHARP tests are by no means perfect and several engineers have spoken out, strongly recommending the tests be augmented... but for now, they're certainly better than anything else we've had.

In general, I'd find a range of lids that fit best and *then* use the SHARP rating to help you choose. It's worth noting that some of the top brands DO score highly as well!

I hear textiles are better than leather.

Better at what?

Textiles are often waterproof, lightweight and warmer. Some people find them more comfortable.

However - if you end up sliding along the road, especially at speed, nothing beats leather at stopping that cheesegrater tarmac surface from grinding your flesh off.
Even in today's biking world of waterproof textiles with triple-layered kevlar linings under CE armour, most high-speed riders (and just about all the pro racers) still wear leather.

On the budget side, you can often pick up brand new leathers from shops for insanely low prices, during the sales. I once got two fully-armoured leather jackets worth £180 and £190, for £30 each simply because they were last season's stock.
If buying second-hand, try the item(s) on first and give them a thorough visual inspection, paying particular attention to the stitching. Charity shops can often yield some decent results.

As far as waterproofing leathers goes, it's far easier to have a set of waterproof overgarments - One piece or two piece. Lidl and Aldi usually have Motorcycle Week, with decent sets available and at the mere fiver that they cost, it's quite good value for the single year they'll likely last. Buy two or three sets, if needs be.

 

[Fireskull]

They choose Caberg and the like because they are really good flip lids and they are quiet, and usually its because they are told to only use 1 brand and type, not like the services can go out and pick and choose their gear and never seen one without a flip lid, something to do with the comms they use and ease of taking it off/dealing with people.
Spoken to a few police riders and they like them because they are quiet, if I rode everyday all day like them I wouldn't use my Arai either, its too damn noisy.

All racers use Arai,shoei, nolan/x-lite etc etc and fairly sure they have real world experience that their lids save their noggins hitting the tarmac
Cant say I have ever looked at the sharp tests and never will, same as the NCAP tests etc manufacturers will design stuff just to pass the test.
But then saying that I wouldn't ever use a cheap lid manufacturer either, I have grown up watching racers crash in various lids and thats good enough of a proven test for me, and yes I do take a lid hitting a tarmac as a good test, a bonnet in comparison on most cars is a crumple zone, hitting a wall on the other hand is a totally different thing and 100000 sharp star ratings wont really help you, as we all know its the sudden stop that kills you as your brain sloshes around inside your own skull....


Leathers are the top in terms of protection but it all depends on what sort of riding you are going to be doing and what you find comfortable, I personally wear leathers all year around and wear waterproof pull over stuff.
I personally don't find textiles all that comfortable but I think I am in the minority.

Get down to your local bike store and try lots and lots of stuff on, even better if you have a J&S local? they sell plenty of cheap stuff.


*As always opinions are like ********* and these sharp ratings always bring out controversy

 

[Tefal]

Most people I've spoken to consider the sharp rating to be a crock of ****! Do you honestly believe a £100 sharp rated 5 Hemet will be better than a £800 shoei that's got a 4 star rating?

yeah because thats 100£ on safety standard meeting where as the towhee is 800 quid on comfort, trick materials and aero dynamics and weight.

 

[Fireskull]

But to be fair thats what I look for in a helmet, a £100 helmet might get 5 stars but it wont be comfortable, and it wont be light, I have tried probably hundreds of lids on over the years, and at bike shows etc and just for my head shape Arai are always the most comfortable, next is AGV, HJC and Shoei are about the same for me, Nolan/X-Lite were quite nice also, I know Shuberth are amazing for quiet but the helmets are just too damn big.(Or they were a few years ago, not tried any on for a while now)
Arai, Shoei and the other big manufactures must sell millions of helmets and I cant say I have ever heard a mass panic that their helmets aren't safe.
Until I start to see video evidence like the NCAP Videos where they fling a dummy with a helmet on into a car/wall/lampost etc and show me that an £600 Arai underperform's to a 5* budget, then I will continue to trust my head in my nice comfortable Arai

 

[Yaayuh!]

Better at what?

Textiles are often waterproof, lightweight and warmer. Some people find them more comfortable.

However - if you end up sliding along the road, especially at speed, nothing beats leather at stopping that cheesegrater tarmac surface from grinding your flesh off.
Even in today's biking world of waterproof textiles with triple-layered kevlar linings under CE armour, most high-speed riders (and just about all the pro racers) still wear leather.

Indeed!

I recently had a slow slide (10-15mph) and my RST textile trousers have gone through to the inner lining... if i was doing 20mph+ and slid for longer, i would have lost skin. Awful.
I've going to be getting some leathers ASAP.

 

[wazza300]

I find leathers a bit restrictive for day to day use,textiles are much better for movement

they offer less protection yeah but generally they hold up pretty well in an off

 

[Alienfish360]

It depends on how often you plan to use it.

Getting some cheap used stuff is fine if you're doing 5 miles per day back and to, to wherever you work.

I commute 400miles per week by bike all year regardless of weather so, paid around £650 for a set of textiles about 4 years back, still waterproof, still warm, no real wear on them I expect them to last a bit longer too, so is good value for money.

But, not really worth it if you're only doing a few miles per week.

Helmets, a cheap helmet can be as safe as an expensive helmet, the extra money often goes into, advertising, materials, often they're lighter, quieter, and far more comfortable. Again, not an issue if you're only wearing it for 15 minutes per day, if you're planning to be on the bike for several hours per week, then it's worth getting something decent.

Remember, buy cheap, buy twice.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Remember, buy cheap, buy twice.

Yup, this.

My list of kit (for doing 200+ miles a week/45 minutes each way in all weathers, my bike is my only transport):

Arai Axcess II (if I was to get another helmet it would be either a Shoei GT Air or an Arai Chaser V)
Furygan Titan and Duke textiles (£270 + £200)
A* Goretex SMX6 boots (£200)
Richa Goretex gloves (£100)

+ a cold killers neck tube, tucano urbano muffs (£40)

So that's 800 quids worth of kit not counting my helmet, but it keeps me completely dry and I'm warmer on the bike riding home than I am sat in the office right now, so for me it's worth it.

I also have some kevlar jeans and I'll be picking up a leather jacket come the summer for when it's dry.

 

[wazza300]

There is some good cheap budget stuff out there,just a case of knowing what to buy

 

[ttaskmaster]

They choose Caberg and the like because they are really good flip lids and they are quiet,

As an owner and user of one Nolan and several Caberg lids, including three different flips, I would like to respectfully disagree - Caberg are fairly reknowned for being flippin' noisy!

not like the services can go out and pick and choose their gear

Possibly depends on the local regs, but our paramedics certainly get to choose. Not actually asked the cops that one yet, though.

manufacturers will design stuff just to pass the test.

Well yeah, you'd think so... As someone said, they all have to pass the basic minimum safety standard anyway. But a lot of Mfrs do also put high prices on what is merely more flash and padding.

But then saying that I wouldn't ever use a cheap lid manufacturer either

What's your threshold?
I personally like a lot of Cabergs and do find their lids fit me better than most. Never found a fitting Arai, wasn't too happy with Schuberth and the Shoei range available when I last looked was just stupid money.

a bonnet in comparison on most cars is a crumple zone,

Having bounced my own bonce off a Vauxhall Corsa bonnet just last November, I know which one crumples in a fight betwixt the two!

hitting a wall on the other hand is a totally different thing and 100000 sharp star ratings wont really help you, as we all know its the sudden stop that kills you as your brain sloshes around inside your own skull....

Depends how it hits and this is the reason SHARP, Snell and other tests were implemented. There are far more variables in road riding than racing, so need more comprehensive testing.

Leathers are the top in terms of protection but it all depends on what sort of riding you are going to be doing and what you find comfortable, I personally wear leathers all year around and wear waterproof pull over stuff.

I would still argue that, when you're sliding down the road, you suddenly stop caring about how comfortable you were just moments before. I'd rather sweat than bleed, as they say.
As is, I go full leathers too, but black leather was always cool anyway!

I do own waterproof overs myself, though I so rarely bother with/remember to pack them!

But to be fair thats what I look for in a helmet, a £100 helmet might get 5 stars but it wont be comfortable

*May not* be comfortable.
You find me an Arai that *I* find comfy and I'll have your babies!!
But then, this is why we go to try 'em all on... preferably washing the gel out of your hair beforehand please, people!!

Arai, Shoei and the other big manufactures must sell millions of helmets and I cant say I have ever heard a mass panic that their helmets aren't safe.

It's not that they're utterly unsafe... just not as safe as their marketing hype would perhaps have you believe, or as their high price attempts to justify.
Compared to what you get from other lids, the expensive ones are often no better and it purely comes down to other features versus your tastes.

Until I start to see video evidence like the NCAP Videos where they fling a dummy with a helmet on into a car/wall/lampost etc and show me that an £600 Arai underperform's to a 5* budget, then I will continue to trust my head in my nice comfortable Arai

Your choice. It should still be safe enough though, according to that BSS sticker and all.

I also would like to see all the tests taking place, though.

 

[4T5]

My 10 cents.

I wear Leather Trousers & a Jacket & I have a 1 piece waterproof suit I slip over them in the rain.
I like Leathers, I like the way they feel & I think they are best for sliding along the floor in. Textiles don't feel right on me & seem to be tight in the wrong places & loose everywhere else. With leathers they loosen to suit you over time & get lovely & soft. I also don't like the thought of having an off in Textiles & having half my skin ripped off.
The real test for my leathers was my off & my leathers saved me untold gravel rash.

As for the OP I think you'll find it impossible to get kitted out for 150 quid unless you have a relative or good mate who sells you his kit.

 

[Alienfish360]

Textiles are generally fine in a crash at road speeds so I wouldn't be too concerned about that, the big downer of them is that they don't offer the same support of broken bones like (properly fitting) leather does.

 

[4T5]

You don't get women saying Oooohh nice leathers when you wear textiles though do ya.

 

[Fireskull]

^^ Haha no they say nice gimp suit

As an owner and user of one Nolan and several Caberg lids, including three different flips, I would like to respectfully disagree - Caberg are fairly reknowned for being flippin' noisy!

Ah ok I just assumed that style of lid was designed to be quiet for touring purposes, have only tried shuberth myself.

What's your threshold?
I personally like a lot of Cabergs and do find their lids fit me better than most. Never found a fitting Arai, wasn't too happy with Schuberth and the Shoei range available when I last looked was just stupid money.

As in price or manufacturer? Price wise I would be happy to ride around in £150 AGV lids, and I have hit the deck wearing one and replaced it straight away with the same model
Usually I would say something like HJC was a decent budget make but they have come on a lot in recent years and I now own one of their Carbon lids for my collection.
Its back 10 years ago now and I had friends on 125s using cheap as hell helmets and bits of trim etc would come off, visors don't secure properly and thankfully none of them crashed in them but it just put me off budget lids for life, but I was quite lucky, I come from a biking family background and as a present for passing my test my parents got me a decent lid

Having bounced my own bonce off a Vauxhall Corsa bonnet just last November, I know which one crumples in a fight betwixt the two!

How did you lid fair? and what was it you were wearing?

Depends how it hits and this is the reason SHARP, Snell and other tests were implemented. There are far more variables in road riding than racing, so need more comprehensive testing.

Of course and I am not disagreeing with that, I just personally think the tests could be tester in more real world accidents using a dummy and hurling them at objects rather than a secured helmet having an object dropped on it like some of the sharp tests.

I would still argue that, when you're sliding down the road, you suddenly stop caring about how comfortable you were just moments before. I'd rather sweat than bleed, as they say.
As is, I go full leathers too, but black leather was always cool anyway!

I agree, and going by my recent accidents I praise all the manufacturers that have kept me in relatively one piece, and wont ever want to ride again without full leathers.

*May not* be comfortable.
You find me an Arai that *I* find comfy and I'll have your babies!!

You're on
But I was just using it as an example.

It's not that they're utterly unsafe... just not as safe as their marketing hype would perhaps have you believe, or as their high price attempts to justify.
Compared to what you get from other lids, the expensive ones are often no better and it purely comes down to other features versus your tastes.

Again its like most big brands they try to 'justify' the price but we all knows its bs, its that price because the name commands it, and people will go with them because its what they know, I personally just prefer Arai over all others simply for comfort, I still own AGV, HJC and Shoei lids and they are all good and would trust them all equally in protection just my arai feels like home when I put it on but I wont pay £700 for any lid, if I have to get one I will wait and get last seasons stock, I always use Arai's free service at the shows also, so the brand does have decent CS to go with the price .


I think at the end of the day do they not all have to conform to some form of safety rating to be actually sold as a safety helmet in this country? regardless of sharp etc ratings, is that what the gold stickers are for? or do they not do them anymore...?
For instance what makes the 'Stig' style helmet not type approved for use on a motorcycle?

 

[wazza300]

I feel a bit homosexual in leathers chase me

 

[ttaskmaster]

Ah ok I just assumed that style of lid was designed to be quiet for touring purposes, have only tried shuberth myself.

It's designed to be functional. I chose Caberg at first because they had the internal sun visor, which is essential if you wear glasses for riding... and because I like to pretend I'm Stringfellow Hawke!!

I've always understood that Schuberth were THE quiet helmets, although YMMV, as usual.

As in price or manufacturer?

As in price, yeah, although either would work.
Generally 'cheap' refers to it being low-priced because it's the absolute minimum quality, which would automatically mean low price = crap manufacturer.
But since the likes of Caberg have started making rather good lids for good prices and getting a decent market share, it seems some other companies have followed suit.

How did you lid fair? and what was it you were wearing?

Caberg 104 V2.
It faired bloody well, I have to say. Slight chip on the impact zone but not even cracked plastic. I remember it being hit, but only because of the head movement. There wasn't any feeling or anything, which to me suggests that the lid cushioned the impact nicely.
That lid cost me just over £100 at the time (it's at least 120 these days) and has been the best I've ever had, over and above the Cabergs I have now, as well.

I just personally think the tests could be tester in more real world accidents using a dummy and hurling them at objects rather than a secured helmet having an object dropped on it like some of the sharp tests.

I agree too, but I think part of the problem is getting the real world tests consistent enough. Those many variables make it difficult, unless Mfrs are happy to supply hundreds of lids for each repeat test.

I agree, and going by my recent accidents I praise all the manufacturers that have kept me in relatively one piece, and wont ever want to ride again without full leathers.

I'm up for trying some textiles, at least. I am actually waiting for a free textile jacket to arrive.
I note that many cops ride in leather trews with textile jackets, which is slightly odd...

I think at the end of the day do they not all have to conform to some form of safety rating to be actually sold as a safety helmet in this country? regardless of sharp etc ratings, is that what the gold stickers are for?

Yup, that's my main point. Various stickers on lid, strap and visor too must all show they meet the basic standards.


Back to the OT - It's possible to get fully kitted (and kitted well) for around £200, but it requires a fair bit of shopping smart and knowing what to look for.
It's always best to try things on before buying, rather than trusting to online size guides, but happily this often means going in person to the places where you find the insane discounts anyway!

 

[wazza300]

airoh flip lids are good,paid less than £50 for mine in a sale

 

[4T5]

I've got 150 quids worth of HJC that I got 50 quid off of so cost me 100 quid. I went out that day with around 300 quid for a new lid. Tried untold different ones on & it all came down to comfort not cost, Well not cost once out the Budget end. HJC just fit my head properly where as others had lumps & bumps inside them that made them really uncomfortable & prob a nightmare once on for an hour or two.
The first HJC I bought had a fault & luckily when I took it back the HJC rep was in the office downstairs, The shop Dude popped down to report the issue to him & came back upstairs with the 50 quid off, I chose my new lid & got it at a great price.

 

[phil675]

I'm considering getting a bike because I'm sick of the train, are the things that you wear over normal clothes any good?

 

[wazza300]

I'm considering getting a bike because I'm sick of the train, are the things that you wear over normal clothes any good?

at keeping you dry yes,keeping you warm and protected no