Scripting, cheating or not?

[Evilsod]

Just something i thought i'd ask after the 'cheating, would you?' thread appeared.

Do you think scripts are cheating or not? You know the type i mean. Looking at Left 4 Dead.

Pistol Scripts that allow you to fire faster than you could possibly pull the trigger at the touch of a button so you can easily maintain accuracy.
Reload Scripts, auto-reload at every possible opportunity, common excuse is 'so i don't have to keep reloading', cheating because you'd never forget in the heat of battle because its done for you.
360 Melee Scripts where whenever you melee with a weapon you do a very quick 360 spin to hit off everything around you.

Personally i think they're cheating, plain and simple. Can't be bothered to reload your shotgun? Use a Script. Can't be bothered to aim? Use an aimbot. The only difference is semantics.

 

[Werewolf]

Yes, there is no question about it, anything that gives you an advantage that the game didn't intend for is cheating.

About the only exception in my eyes would be the likes of keyboards that let you bind two keys to one etc (so you don't have to press shift 9 or some other ungodly combo to access a menu).

 

[Caustic]

I think it cheating. It might only be cheating slightly (in the case of the auto-reload script) but it's still cheating. No doubt about it IMO.

 

[Knubje]

Yes, cheating.

 

[_Gizka_]

Yes, cheating in the clearest sense of the word. Manipulating the fundamentals of the game to gain advantage of an unfair manner is cheating.

 

[orderoftheflame]

Just something i thought i'd ask after the 'cheating, would you?' thread appeared.

Do you think scripts are cheating or not? You know the type i mean. Looking at Left 4 Dead.

Pistol Scripts that allow you to fire faster than you could possibly pull the trigger at the touch of a button so you can easily maintain accuracy.
Reload Scripts, auto-reload at every possible opportunity, common excuse is 'so i don't have to keep reloading', cheating because you'd never forget in the heat of battle because its done for you.
360 Melee Scripts where whenever you melee with a weapon you do a very quick 360 spin to hit off everything around you.

Personally i think they're cheating, plain and simple. Can't be bothered to reload your shotgun? Use a Script. Can't be bothered to aim? Use an aimbot. The only difference is semantics.

Anyone I know inspired this?

My stance is that it's cheating. People that use it do my nut in.

Auto melee, auto reload, auto crouch, autofire, aimbot, esp, wall hack, all from the same school of knobberness.

The only difference is that some require third party stuff, and some just rely on engine exploits.

 

[Evilsod]

Yeah the Steam Console is great for it unfortunately...

 

[Surfer]

if its something as simple as editing a config file clearly visible to everyone and their dog then id say no its not cheating.

Essentially all you have is someone who learns more about the game infrastructure and code and uses this knowledge to legally help them in the game. But not doing so by reverse engineering the code and such. Its something that everyone can do and all it is it automation of certain actions. It doesnt alter actual game code.

Personally i think they're cheating, plain and simple. Can't be bothered to reload your shotgun? Use a Script. Can't be bothered to aim? Use an aimbot. The only difference is semantics.

Very poor and inaccurate comparison. If the obect and winner of the game was to reload as much as is possible then you might have a point but it isnt and you dont.

Come up with a better example if you are convinced scripting is just as bad as reverse-engineering game code and thereby breaking the game licence t&cs.

 

[orderoftheflame]

if its something as simple as editing a config file clearly visible to everyone and their dog then id say no its not cheating.

Essentially all you have is someone who learns more about the game infrastructure and code and uses this knowledge to help them in the game. But not doing so by reverse engineering the code and such. Its something that everyone can do and all it is it automation of certain actions. It doesnt alter actual game code.

Very poor and inaccurate comparison. If the obect and winner of the game was to reload as much as is possible then you might have a point but it isnt and you dont.

Come up with a better example if you are convinced scripting is just as bad as reverse-engineering game code and thereby breaking the game licence t&cs.

Does something have to break T&Cs to be classed as cheating?

These scripts are done using exploits in the engine, to give the player an advantage. I'm sure most the people using them haven't learnt the game code and devised a method to improve their gameplay so much as googling "auto-reload script".

If you've played someone using a set of scripts in any game it's quite obvious they give an advantage.

L4D for example, an auto-reload script pretty much eliminates reloading for anyone using the shotgun, if they so much as pause shooting they'll have a full clip without thinking about it.

The 360 melee script is one of the worst in L4D, effectively that person will take no major damage from infected, where a person that would have to turn, find the infected and melee might take a hit or two. If you're trying to find a good moment when they're reloading to attack that person, it's not going to come about.

I've written plenty of scripts for use with L4D, but none of them exploit systems, mine are simple jobbies to cycle through pre-set volume levels and the like, people are just exploiting the fact that they can also be used to remove the need to think about gameplay elements.

 

[Anim]

Scripts that mimic human input would be cheating, such as the "turn 360 whilst taking a swing" because its essentially moving the mouse for you.

I genuinely have no idea what a crouch script does for you apart from ... crouch? Reload script is just lazy and you wont find many/any actually good players using something like that, only those that need these things to stop their little brain from being overwhelmed

 

[aln]

Depends on specifics. A script to turn your volume up and down, is a good thing and is in the spirit of having the ability to use scripts. On the other hand, a nade scripts, which allows you to throw the perfect nade everytime, is cheating in my opinion.

 

[Antar Bolaeisk]

I wouldn't consider the reload script (my finger does this automatically in L4D as it's glued to the R key, no messing with scripts for me ) but I would certainly consider the 360 melee script a cheat simply because it provides a massive advantage being able to remove all those commons from around you with one button press, especially in a boomered situation.

 

[orderoftheflame]

I genuinely have no idea what a crouch script does for you apart from ... crouch?

They make you automatically crouch when you start shooting to increase weapon accuracy. When you stop shooting, you'll stand up and be running at full speed again.

I'm not sure if they're common in L4D, but I've seen loads of people using them across a few games (used to be very common to see people using it for Day of Defeat).

Depends on specifics. A script to turn your volume up and down, is a good thing and is in the spirit of having the ability to use scripts. On the other hand, a nade scripts, which allows you to throw the perfect nade everytime, is cheating in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Evilsod was referring to scripts that improve player performance in some way or another, rather than legitimate scripts for opening an admin menu or to connect to a server.

 

[Evilsod]

Very poor and inaccurate comparison. If the obect and winner of the game was to reload as much as is possible then you might have a point but it isnt and you dont.

Come up with a better example if you are convinced scripting is just as bad as reverse-engineering game code and thereby breaking the game licence t&cs.

Just lol... that sounds like the rationalisations of a scripter trying to claim what he does is legit to me.

Because infact, the game CAN be decided by whether or not you could reload as much as possible. In the heat of an infected attack in L4D its very easy to forget to reload because your too busy with other things. On the 1 team the player is auto-reload scripting, it was done for him, he has 1 more shell in his shotgun and unloading on a Hunter that 1 extra shell kills it. The legit player runs out and is huntered.

Contrived sure, but still possible.

@aln, yeah i wasn't meaning a script that alters volume, i meant something that directly affects gameplay like the nade script you mentioned. I know therse an auto-pounce script for the Hunter which makes you crouch and pounce in the shortest time possible, thats borderline though.

However i think its possible to glitch out the Jockey by simply turning incredibly fast while holding forwards, making you change direction faster than the Jockey can control you so you can't be moved. I may of understood wrongly but this is what i thought it meant when i saw it mentioned on the Steam forum. So you could easily script that too and render Jockeys useless.

 

[Surfer]

Does something have to break T&Cs to be classed as cheating?

These scripts are done using exploits in the engine, to give the player an advantage. I'm sure most the people using them haven't learnt the game code and devised a method to improve their gameplay so much as googling "auto-reload script".

If you've played someone using a set of scripts in any game it's quite obvious they give an advantage.

L4D for example, an auto-reload script pretty much eliminates reloading for anyone using the shotgun, if they so much as pause shooting they'll have a full clip without thinking about it.

The 360 melee script is one of the worst in L4D, effectively that person will take no major damage from infected, where a person that would have to turn, find the infected and melee might take a hit or two. If you're trying to find a good moment when they're reloading to attack that person, it's not going to come about.

I've written plenty of scripts for use with L4D, but none of them exploit systems, mine are simple jobbies to cycle through pre-set volume levels and the like, people are just exploiting the fact that they can also be used to remove the need to think about gameplay elements.

Well i havent played L4d (what engine?) as i dont play pc fps anymore. I'll agree if the player is using a script which is so powerful that it is reacting faster than humanly possible and is automating more complex actions then yes it is an unfair advantage. But then why dont the devs hardlock the code to prevent it?
My experience and usage of scripts mainly involved movement and switching weapons simple stuff and it didnt make me aim better but it made gameplay smoother - wouldnt bother with a reloading script because i prefered to use my own judgement in the game. Reloading still takes time when you cant shoot. If i played someone who i knew used it then easy to take advantage of it.

@Evilsod

ahh right so this is mainly about l4d? havent played it so cant comment. But if you are killed because you forgot to reload then imo you deserved it *shrug* Learn how to use your weapons more effectively?

 

[Monkeynut]

Well i havent played L4d (what engine?) as i dont play pc fps anymore.

Source Engine, updated version of the one in Half Life 2.

 

[Anim]

They make you automatically crouch when you start shooting to increase weapon accuracy. When you stop shooting, you'll stand up and be running at full speed again.

Stuff like that would genuinely annoy me if i was trying to play, i wont want to crouch every time i fire so when i fire and i want to be running i'll be hindering myself. Everything i do in an fps game is a conscious decision..


Scripting in CS though, buy scripts were common place so no issues there. I had been accused of cheating a few times due to a couple of binds i used (still use if i play) that change the sensitivity of the mouse. The equivalent of mwheelup = sens 3, mwheeldown = sens 2, mouse3 = sens 1. I wouldnt bother with something like that in quake though as its too fast to bother with sens changing and just have those keys bound to diff weapons.

 

[Surfer]

Source Engine, updated version of the one in Half Life 2.

lol ahh okay. Pretty much open source then

 

[PinkFloyd]

Lol @ reload script. Hardly cheating, its not even an advantage
Auto reload for people too stupid to press R? Surely it is a pain in the neck reloading at every opportunity, you're going probably be reloading whilst someone runs out in front of you or something!

Pistol Scripts, meh, just bound shoot on the mouse wheel, I used to do that on COD4 for a laugh, could click just as fast though. It only works on games where the coders haven't coded the gun to actually have some form of a cooloff time. Can't think of many games other than COD where this can even be done.

360 script - a bit lame.... Can't see it actually working too well at being able to stab people in any direction though, imagine it would just stab in one direction then you'd just be spinning for the lulz - certainly have never seen anyone using this.

Aimbotters and those that use speedhacks should be stabbed in the face though.

 

[orderoftheflame]

ahh right so this is mainly about l4d? havent played it so cant comment. But if you are killed because you forgot to reload then imo you deserved it *shrug* Learn how to use your weapons more effectively?

L4D can get a bit intense at times, and it's those times where you can get pressured into making mistakes, it's not a case of being crap at reloading your weapon, more having so much else going on that it's not a priority in your brain.
If you've got a player that's auto reloading, they're never going to make that mistake that could decide which team wins or looses the round.

No only that, but they're saving time with every reload. In L4D it could be the difference between having 2 shots left or none.

Scripting in CS though, buy scripts were common place so no issues there. I had been accused of cheating a few times due to a couple of binds i used (still use if i play) that change the sensitivity of the mouse. The equivalent of mwheelup = sens 3, mwheeldown = sens 2, mouse3 = sens 1. I wouldnt bother with something like that in quake though as its too fast to bother with sens changing and just have those keys bound to diff weapons.

Buy scripts and scripts to change sensitivity would be fine in my opinion, they're things you could easily do from the options screen bound to buttons.

I've got a toggle button for TF2 which lets me change my sensitivity if I want to Snipe instead of run around. I could change it in the options, but I've just made a toggle for it instead, same thing with buying in CS. It's not going to make you kill more, or save your life. Just save a few seconds off of doing a simple task.

Lol @ reload script. Hardly cheating, its not even an advantage
Auto reload for people too stupid to press R?

Play L4D against someone doing it for an entire game and it'll be quickly clear what an advantage it is.

Surely it is a pain in the neck reloading at every opportunity, you're going probably be reloading whilst someone runs out in front of you or something!

You can interrupt reload just by shooting in L4D, there's no penalty if you decide to shoot while reloading. Using auto reload, you could get a shell in a shotgun between turning between two targets easily.

Have a watch of this, and you'll see what a difference it can make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uOmWkoAC3w