secret comes out...

[squiffy]

I do not think all religions, even most, were created in order to control people

I think they were, from a small method (no sex before marriage, no anal sex even with consenting adults) to extreme (kill infidels) It is to control people. And religious tenents usually effect legal laws too. Look at states in Ohio USA (oral sex), or proceedings in the US where gays had to prove ok to drive cars, or Middle Eastern countries (gays, and Islam Sharia Law)

You went off on a bit of a tangent here, and it looks like you're more or less just talking about catholicism. To that degree, the banning of contraceptives by the church, if removed would no doubt reduce the amount of AIDS in less developed countries.

Like I said intolerence is not fixed to one religion. Execution of gays, and those that leave Islam, and stoning of death women who have affairs in the ME. Witch burnings in Europe, again fear over the ignorent and different. Those that showed some free thinking were probably burnt at the stake. I have not read the Koran but I doubt gays are allowed. Again religious viewpoints control peoples actions. Your point about AIDS (keeping people in ignorence) I have read of priests using the possibility of catching the disease as fear control methods "Sin and you will receive the disease" from God, rather than stating the scientific fact, due to the gullible ignorent African farmer keeps him inline with the religion. Just why don't they say "using a condom will stop aids, it has nothing to do with God- if I inject you with this HIV infected blood you will catch AIDS, God will not protect you" It's because it says so in the Bible, and the Bible is never wrong, even when it is. The Bible is illogical (heh Trekkie) Adam and Eve, and rule about incest.

And not forgetting Galielo. His "heretic" teachings of Sun at the centre of our solar system, rather than Earth centre of the Universe. What did The Church and Spanish Inquisition do? Again control over the ignorent, and death to heretics. And you have the same people in power now Bush "God told me to invade ME"

More that they were created as an attempt to understand the world, but abused as a control tool. As for tolerance, that comes down to personal experience. Just as there are kind old people and rude people is not to say
they are all one or the other.

True but religious/legal laws are written by the people in power, not general public. And that is how our society changes. For example could a group of racist thugs change the country they live in? No but if enough thugs somehow get in power they can instill there own laws. So your own morals will be changed, whether you like it or not otherwise you will be breaking religious/legal laws - imagine those thugs invent a new religion and make that a state religion, but that is how it comes religion into existance. Probably waffling here and talking BS but it is 2am.

I have seen/heard many intolerant religious people that look down on non-believers very pretentiously. However, on the same note some religious people are tolerant - to say otherwise is generalising.

again true you have % of religious people, from one scale to the other, but most religion itself is not teaching of tolerence or updated viewpoint (scientific) ie Popes opinon on Condoms- as I have experience with a RC religious school and if you showed any opinion basically ridiculed/judged. Other religions were scoffed at also (Roman Catholic school) All the teachers were the same, and all other pupils agreed with the teachers (or pretended they did so that is control) those that viewed opinion failed RE.

It's unjust to tar all religions with this brush. Although it can be applied to monotheistic religions to a degree, although we're talking extreme pious nutcases here, how you could say that a polytheistic religion causes its followers to be alike?

Agree with polytheistic religion that because of the diversity you have people of free-er will. As for monotheistic if you do not follow Holy text literally and believe in everything totally you are not a follower of that religion, as Christian above said, that to be a Christian you have to be alike otherwise you aren't a Christian (or Muslim or...) So in opinion (you have none) and belief will be exactly the same as the person next to you on the pew/prayer mate.

Also issue of marriage- ie Protestant marries a Catholic (both branch of Christianity!) I know of a Christian who depsises Protestants and Catholics!! and Jew marrying non Jew (have to convert to Jewish faith) again not tolerent of different faiths. If faiths were tolerent you woudln't have so many followers.

 

[FirebarUK]

I have no problem believing in Jesus/Mohammed, but if I were religious I would pick and choose the MORAL things from each text to what I believe is right

I believe moral's were instilled by God when he created man in the first place. I dont think we arrived on this earth with no morals. Of course society has now diluted and even removed some of those morals in a lot of people.

 

[tbz_ck]

I believe moral's were instilled by God when he created man in the first place. I dont think we arrived on this earth with no morals. Of course society has now diluted and even removed some of those morals in a lot of people.

If you look at the Genesis account, the knowedge of good and evil was imparted the moment Eve ate of that tree. The knowledge of good and evil most certainly were not instilled by God, and if you look closely at that account, its obvious that God never intended man to have the knowledge of good and evil.

Religious people have turned Christianity into a form of moral code, with a striving for moral purity. The thing is no-one can achieve moral purity in and of themselves and to think that trying hard acheives it, is to think exactly with the mind of a pharasee (i.e self righteousness, not God's imparted righteousness)

The purpose of the "law" in the bible was to curb sin, to curtail its growth. But the bible says that once God's answer came in the form of Jesus, there is no longer a need for law. In fact the bible says that where there is no law, there is no sin, and sin is powerless when there is no law. Look at Romans 10, and Galatians in detail if you want to see it for yourselves.

A Christian need only strive to believe correctly. Namely that God's command is simply to love Him and love your fellow man as you love yourself. There is no room for law, or judgement, or prejudice in love. And in that agape (unconditional) love is the power to live right.

 

[squiffy]

I believe moral's were instilled by God when he created man in the first place. I dont think we arrived on this earth with no morals. Of course society has now diluted and even removed some of those morals in a lot of people.

And I believe we had no morals and just survived on natural instinct (say 10,000-100,000 years ago) as with any other animal. So primitive humans would have killed rival males for a bit of oh la la

Until God appears I do not believe in a creation myth, nor the unbelievable fairy tales (Noahs Ark) I believe more in the chance of Aliens that I do of God. In fact I say Satan exists and no God, generally evil continues to happen (ie Dunblane) sorry did those children deserve to die according to "Gods plan"? and the 5 million Jews? If God decides that millions of Jews were to die I believe God is evil, and I'll spit on his face if/when I meet him.

 

[Richdog]

I believe that there's some form of higher power/being out there but I certainly do not believe in The Bible version of events, they are simply ludicrous and there is far more evidence (albeit incomplete) for evolution. Noahs Ark is a prime example of the ridiculousness of it all.

Google a guy called Victor Zammit, his theories correspond to a more general view of what I believe. Also funnily enough, my grandmother is a very spiritual person who has had more than a few "experiences" and she used to tell me her thoughts about what she believed about the afterlife and it corresponds very closely with Victors views. That is proof of nothing, obviously, but she is 100% convinced it is true and she never lies.

 

[Vonhelmet]

In fact I say Satan exists and no God, generally evil continues to happen (ie Dunblane) sorry did those children deserve to die according to "Gods plan"? and the 5 million Jews? If God decides that millions of Jews were to die I believe God is evil, and I'll spit on his face if/when I meet him.

If you're seriously saying you believe Satan exists but find God wholly improbable, then you have very little credibility.

As for the issue of evil and suffering... it's quite simple to resolve once you get past the human desire for immediate justice and accept that God will deal with all things in due course. Also, just because stuff happens, doesn't mean God chooses for it to happen. He may allow it to happen, but that's a very different thing, and gets into whole issues of free will which are too complex but get discussed hundreds of times a day by people who don't really understand them.