to be fair, a 140+ opff ona road is probbaly fatal no matter what you're wearing.
Seen horrific things...
- Thread starter agnes
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to be fair, a 140+ opff ona road is probbaly fatal no matter what you're wearing.
i once burnt my hand/finger (posted pics o nhere i think) there's no visible scaring but the skin down the outside of my left index finger is noticeably thicker to me and i canfeel resitance when i bend it.
i can,t imagine just how little movement you'd have with big keloid abrasion scars on your palms/fingers.
I'm not a biker myself but I still shudder every time I look at what was left of my mates bike:
She is my best mates ex wife. I'd been chatting to her only half an hour before when she left to go and tank up ready for a days ride. It seems she skidded on some diesel coming out of the petrol station which put her into the path of an oncoming car. That threw her into a barrier which broke her neck and the bike burst into flames.
Thankfully full leathers stopped her from getting seriously burnt and her lid almost certainly protected her from from a crushed skull but she still had several months in hospital, much of it with a metal cage around her upper body stopping her head from moving while her neck healed.
She is my best mates ex wife. I'd been chatting to her only half an hour before when she left to go and tank up ready for a days ride. It seems she skidded on some diesel coming out of the petrol station which put her into the path of an oncoming car. That threw her into a barrier which broke her neck and the bike burst into flames.
Thankfully full leathers stopped her from getting seriously burnt and her lid almost certainly protected her from from a crushed skull but she still had several months in hospital, much of it with a metal cage around her upper body stopping her head from moving while her neck healed.
So its the same people smoking 40 years knowing the risks, its the same for people abusing substances i could go on and on. IF you dont like your job then leave. So get of your high and mighty medical and let people get on with there lives doing what they want to do. I would harm no one but myself 80% of the time.
But like i said
Hypocrites.
You have a point SPG but then Rotters has a hugely valid point too.
'Freedom of choice' - yes you have it but I some times feel that it is related to ignorance depending on the topic. This topic I find comments like 'Freedom of choice' has no place.
You can argue and look up accidents, stats, pics and videos etc but what would your parents, partner or loved ones say in the event of an off with no gear on?
I think they would be furious at you, think about it, imagine their reactions, do it. Really think about it, the hospital, the med staff, your family and think of having the off with no gear on... the pain. Then get on your bike and ride 140mph with leathers on and realise that you have one less niggle in the back of your skull saying 'Gear up'.
Just actually imagine it. I did the other day when I rode with normal trousers on. I did not like it, the material was too thin and I did feel venerable. Lesson learnt and I still have my skin.
Brackish.
'Freedom of choice' - yes you have it but I some times feel that it is related to ignorance depending on the topic. This topic I find comments like 'Freedom of choice' has no place.
You can argue and look up accidents, stats, pics and videos etc but what would your parents, partner or loved ones say in the event of an off with no gear on?
I think they would be furious at you, think about it, imagine their reactions, do it. Really think about it, the hospital, the med staff, your family and think of having the off with no gear on... the pain. Then get on your bike and ride 140mph with leathers on and realise that you have one less niggle in the back of your skull saying 'Gear up'.
Just actually imagine it. I did the other day when I rode with normal trousers on. I did not like it, the material was too thin and I did feel venerable. Lesson learnt and I still have my skin.
Brackish.
Ok I get it, no ones opinion matters bar yours.....I live my job btw, your right people make stupid choices which include smoking and substance abuse and riding at 140mph with no protection. I just hope none of your family members have to come visit you in poor health because of your choices.
There we go again bringing up the family members card, the same family members who smoke, drink whatever. Its the same thing.
You cant stop folk wearing what they want to wear, its like saying to people going in cars need to wear a full neckbrace and firesuit everytime they go out "just in case".
Like i said previous, we know the risks doing what we do its choice and thats what matters. No peoples opinion of "i know best as i fell once....."
You cant stop folk wearing what they want to wear, its like saying to people going in cars need to wear a full neckbrace and firesuit everytime they go out "just in case".
Like i said previous, we know the risks doing what we do its choice and thats what matters. No peoples opinion of "i know best as i fell once....."
SPG, out of interest as I'm a bit confused here, can you clear up how you can reconcile wearing what you do against your attendance of BikeSafe courses, recommending them to others and talking about good defensive riding in this section too please?
One has nothing to do with the other. Riding carefully and defensively helps to stop accidents in the first place. Protective gear helps you crash well, not ride well. In fact on the few occasions I've ridden in a T Shirt I've probably ridden far more carefully than ever. Far too many riders pull on full leathers and think they've got a force field around them.
My Mum used to be a nurse in a head trauma ward, and she said it was shocking how few people ended up there from bike crashes. She also worked in A+E though, and said that in nearly all crashes wear the rider was wearing gear, it was fairly simple fixes, like a broken leg or arm. When gear wasn't worn though, the rider almost always ended up in a big mess, needing skin grafts and all sorts of unpleasant stuff.
Interesting thing is, she rides bikes too having seen regularly the mess you can get into, but if I ever rode without a jacket at least she'd collar me for it.
Interesting thing is, she rides bikes too having seen regularly the mess you can get into, but if I ever rode without a jacket at least she'd collar me for it.
I'd disagree there. I'd say defensive riding and good roadcraft and the correct PPE is part of an overall package. Placing yourself in any situation which has the potential to be dangerous is something that can be addressed by putting control measures in place to deal with hazards and reduce risk. In my line of work we have many different examples of components of an overall 'package' to allow us to carry out our duties safely and efficiently. We have Standard Operating Procedures, Instructional Training Notes, Technical Information Notes, Service Policy and Procedures and an Incident Command System to name but a few. Couple all the above up with the correct PPE and equipment for any given situation and we can reduce the potential exposure to the hazards which reduces the likelihood of risk. Apologies if that sounds like a Health & Safety lecture but it is fairly common sense to be honest and can be applied to many areas of life including riding fast bikes on the road.
As I said previously, I'm an advocate of freedom of choice but when exercising that freedom of choice clearly contradicts common sense and exposes an individual to a much higher potential for risk and serious injury it that 'right to wear what I like' becomes farcical.
It would appear that those who advocate this freedom of choice and exercise it when riding will continue to do so. However they may not realise the folly in this until they have an 'off' and remove several centimetres of skin and bone from their person. If that's what it takes to afford these riders the perspective of what massive risks they are potentially undertaking then so be it. Continue riding in shorts, t-shirts and flip flops until that day perhaps arrives. I'll stick with my leathers and textiles though, thanks.
To play devils advocate here a little though, I'd agree with the point Sagalout made earlier:-
I've seen this happen on a few occasions. And I will admit I've went through this thought process myself many years ago. It's something that is a natural human reaction and can only be expected to a certain degree. Riding in a £2k one piece suit doesn't guarantee you will be perfectly fine in the event of an 'off' and many inexperienced riders would do well to remember this. Unfortunately many do not.
And finally, aside from what I've previously described as my current career which spans over 23 years in the Fire & Rescue Service and the resulting RTC's involving bikes I've attended and dealt with, there's THIS. Still affects me if I'm honest and although he was wearing full riding kit and was killed almost instantly it was the worst day of my life to date. I feel fairly well qualified to comment on the subject of all aspects of biking safety including wearing the correct kit on the roads. Forgive me if I'm fairly vocal on the subject.
I see a direct correlation between the two. Most riders in sensible gear ride sensibly in the main, from what I've seen. The ones in t-shirts less so on average but I'm only going on what I've seen down here in London. There will obviously be some that ride more sensibly as a result, but if London is a snap-shot for the country I suspect you and them are in the minority.
I also suspect the number of people in this country that go on BikeSafe courses in DocMartins and jeans or similar gear could be counted on one hand over the years. God forbid he threw away his principles and donned some protective gear for them...
Soldato
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I took a risk in jeans. Always rode in them, in 7 years I did about 90% of my riding in them, about 50,000 miles in total. I did end up coming off in them and ended up with a hole in my knee for two months and a 2p sized scar there a year later. It was a shame my armoured jacket didn't stop both bones breaking in my forearm. Ho hum.
So is it a doctors choice not to treat you when you come off and have no skin left?
Is it my choice not to contribute tax to the NHS that would treat you in the event you come off?
How exactly are people here a bunch of hypocrites?
Soldato
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fully agree with kitting up correctly all the time. You can be the best rider in the whole world. That does not take into consideration the people in cars that pull out without seeing you or that diesel spill on a roundabout.
Each to there own I agree. But for me. Full Leathers or Bike Textiles, Back Protector, Gloves and Boots. Always. No excuses.
One life. Live it safe.
Each to there own I agree. But for me. Full Leathers or Bike Textiles, Back Protector, Gloves and Boots. Always. No excuses.
One life. Live it safe.
Changing the discussion entirely we take for granted in this country that you wear a helmet by law, now the cynic in me has twisted this round to the following.
Riding you bike along the way, crash 80% DEAD biker, so no NHS bills apart from a mop up crew, coroner office and mortuary department and here is the killer a huge payout for a privately owned insurance company.....
Due to successive governments and the twisted and corrupt paths of lobbying (must have been bad in the 70s) the insurance companies say its costing them X amount of pounds the government and there cronies on the board decided this is bad for the old duck-house and shreholders to introduce helmet LAW to line there pockets. This has the knock on effect of costing the NHS more in CARE i.e the TAX payer and the insurers laughing all the way to the golf course.
Just Sayin
Riding you bike along the way, crash 80% DEAD biker, so no NHS bills apart from a mop up crew, coroner office and mortuary department and here is the killer a huge payout for a privately owned insurance company.....
Due to successive governments and the twisted and corrupt paths of lobbying (must have been bad in the 70s) the insurance companies say its costing them X amount of pounds the government and there cronies on the board decided this is bad for the old duck-house and shreholders to introduce helmet LAW to line there pockets. This has the knock on effect of costing the NHS more in CARE i.e the TAX payer and the insurers laughing all the way to the golf course.
Just Sayin
Crap, quite frankly. It's not hypocrisy, it's simply consideration for others. If you have no friends or family and you'd be quite happy to remove your right to treatment because you couldn't be bothered to mitigate at leat some of the risk by wearing protective gear, then fair enough. If you do have friends or family, then you are simply a very selfish person.
Obviously you cant grasp the concept.... Its EXACTLY the same, both will cause you serious harm yet you proceed to do it, just look at the next wino you see sitting in park and go over to him and rant at him about the virtues of his drinking and that his mum would be very very upset and when he ends up in hospital all your wino friends will be feeling bad for him.....