Self identification, how far should it go?

Dis86 said:
As per title really. We're seeing people actively encouraged if they think they identify as a different gender or sexuality. Where are the limits to this?


Should rules not be applied equally? Either you are what you actually biologically are or any of us can and should be allowed to be whatever we want!
Click to expand...

One would presume that sexuality and gender are often biologically determined to some extent no? Even if their x/y chromosomes produce a slightly different outcome to the 'norm' that usually come with said x/y combination.

You can't be a rhino born as a human, but you can be a man who was born gay, or a woman who was born with the feeling of being male.

I don't think many gay men identify as being a gay man, I think they simply are a gay man. But I'm sure there are men who identify as being gay, along with men who enjoy sex with other males but don't identify as being a gay man.

You can identify as anything you like, as long as it is actually true and you are not taking the wee for what ever reason.... Like there are folk who identify as a politician but are only in it for personal gain, not for the good of the populace.

I can't help think that the op post is just having a laugh at people, but I somewhat agree that some scrutiny is valid.

I would say that folk are 'supported' rather than 'encouraged' more often than not, also.
 
Everyone should be "given" an RFID chip at birth stating their future and lifestyle choice. This way we can assure diversity and maintain an equality based system of rule.
The chip could also contain how many nutrition pills you are allowed, your break times at the manufactorium to associate with other workers and most importantly your expiry date.
 
Threepwood said:
You can't be a rhino born as a human, but you can be a man who was born gay, or a woman who was born with the feeling of being male.
Click to expand...

Well that is dubious and disputed, it tends to be based on gender stereotypes too. This is an interesting read for example by a woman who does suffer from GD* and did used to identify as a man:

https://medium.com/@charlie.evans/a-journey-from-trans-to-t-rf-25bf61455048

We had never considered a narrative outside of the ‘queer community’ bubble until then. We didn’t find the hate our friends had warned us about. Instead, we found rational, considered, thoughtful viewpoints that we had never considered.

“.. She’s sort of got a point though,” my friend said about one tweet. And I agreed.

Is it really progressive to believe in boy brains and girl brains? Is it really progressive to believe rejecting the sterotypes of your own sex means that you are not a woman?

It was the final tap of an already wobbling domino. And the rest of the dominoes fell quickly.

It is difficult to completely reassess everything you knew to be true. It is human nature to identify ourselves by our groups beliefs. ‘T*RFs’ are the bad guys, we are the good guys. They’re wrong, we’re right. They’re evil, we’re good. It’s easy to polarize like this, but it isn’t condusive to a progressive society.

All belief systems deserve scrutiny, and polarization like this only closes the door on complex and nuanced thought.

When I was faced with the science and philosophy opposing queer theory, I was forced to change my mind — much like the way Richard Dawkins’ books had backed my young Christian fundementalist self into a corner.

I could no longer ignore the evidence.

Women are oppressed because of their sex.
Telling children they could be born in the wrong body is harmful.
There is no such thing as a ‘girl brain’ or a ‘boy brain’.

Crucially, I could not ignore that a happier healthier future for our society would be one that abandons gender norms entirely rather than propping up the binary by medicalization the gender non conforming.

Perhaps the most difficult part of this journey was reassessing my own identity. As a teenager, I had believed too that I was not a woman.
Click to expand...


*(GD = Gender Disphoria that is, not too much exposure to OCUK forums)
 
FishFluff said:
its a very good question but I doubt you’ll get a decent answer from the usual serially offended GD posters, most of which I see have already flocked to this thread like pigeons to a discarded bag of chips.
Click to expand...
Once this stuff gets codified into law, then it starts impacting people pretty quickly.

Generally it's not a good idea to codify delusions into law, such that everybody else has to play their own part in maintaining the delusion.
 
dowie said:
Well that is dubious and disputed, it tends to be based on gender stereotypes too. This is an interesting read for example by a woman who does suffer from GD* and did used to identify as a man:

https://medium.com/@charlie.evans/a-journey-from-trans-to-t-rf-25bf61455048
Click to expand...

Your link might support what I am saying. The author of the post sounds like they were born that way, or at least predisposed to. She doesn't talk much about her years as a child true, but I would not rule out genetic factors (along with unknown nurture/environment) that may make her more disposed to feel like a male. Nowhere does she say she was brainwashed into believing she was male, do you know much about her in these regards? It would be interesting to know.

I did not say anywhere that some people are born with the opposite sex brain, I wouldn't because I don't believe that myself. Men and women are only 3% different anyway, so even if different sex brains were possible we would only be talking 3% of their brains, which ain't that much.

There have been girly boys and manly women born throughout the ages long before sex changes were possible (though there are girly boys who were able to remove their man parts, and I'm pretty sure some of the manly woman will have fashioned a strap on or two :p, but I'm not saying they were all gay, lol). I genuinely believe that some folk are just born that way. Let them express themselves.

Nor do I believe that kids should be told they are in wrong bodies, but I do believe that they should be listened to should they suggest that themselves - as simply telling them they are wrong can also be damaging.

Taking sex changes entirely off the table is not something I would support, and I think that nothing of the sort should be pushed on to anyone, but if that is really what they want after properly reviewing it all for themselves then it's best to support them.

I wonder if she believes that sex changes should be gotten rid of entirely, it would be good to know.


Fwiw, have you read the Female Eunuch (Germaine Greer) and Iron John: Men and masculinity (Robert Bly)?

I particularly like Bly's take on why woman are oppressed, it's not because they are women (as suggested by the writer of your link) but more to do with men not being men. I would highly recommend his book.

Edit: I mention Greer's book because together the two balance one another rather well.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom