Sennheiser HD650 - The classic beauty in a grey dress Appreciation thread!

[Ryanr1987]

These are hands down the most popular headphone in the world, that isn't beats anyway.


It deserves it's own thread for anyone interested in this headphone, all information can be found in one place I've bought and sold this headphone so many timers. I've always sold it knowing it would return back into my collection.

Review

There's a review in my guide but I'm starting to see the benefits of reviewing a headphone after really long use.

I've said it many times, this is a special headphone. It was made in 2003 and is still a flagship level headphone. When I see people buying flagship headphones like the T1 and Hifiman HE-560 it really amazes me that the HD650 isn't considered as it's hands down a better headphone than those.

The LCD-2F & 3F are equal or inferior to the HD650 depending on the luck of the draw. This is amazing when you consider how old it is! The older LCD-2's I think was better than the HD650 because it had equal mids but better bass extension with similar resolution.


Sound

A gift from god. If god could come down and sing in your ear, you'd be freaked out and amazed at the same time..I get that a lot with the HD650. I don't get it all the time, my moods change like every other human. This headphone provides me with a lot of joyful moments. This headphone is very cohesive! most headphones I can pick them out in sections but the HD650, just like the LCD-2PF presents the music as a whole. Looking at graphs, you would see a lack of low bass, I don't get that feeling as much as other headphones because I'm getting a headphone that puts everything together and presents the music as one.

When a singer is has their guitar, and sings, you get this sense of intimacy, a voice sounds real, engaging. Nothing sounds like it's forced or false. When a string is flicked, you get this realistic decay that again, I could only name a handful of headphones replicate well. Now I love my Nighthawk, a lot! but when switching between vocalist, you get the Nighthawks tone injected in your ear to the point it's coloured, like I can separate one singer from another as I'm listening to the Hawks. When I listen to the HD650, they adapt to the different tone of a voice better than the Hawks.

I was blown away by the Nighthawk, but as time as gone on I've found it's faults. The bass, warmth overtook me. Everything I've said positive about it still stands! but the way it portrays the human voice isn't correct. If you look at a HD650 graph you won't find one peak, it's so smooth. You know what?! who cares about the tech talk, this headphone is amazing on emotion alone!

I've recently found the Chord Mojo, without an amp pairs really well with the HD650. I call it my lazy boy set up and it's fantastic. By the way have you heard of the Sennheiser HD650 veil? yeah it's BS. Treble is great, present, smooth a little rolled off right at the top.

Soundstage? Cohesive, good width and depth. Imaging? yes. It does what a top level headphone should do. Build quality? for god sake you ask too many questions! yes it's built so well and it's modular. Cables? please stop...yes good.

How does it compare to the Q701? It destroys them

How does it compare to the HE-400i? it wins here too.

HE-500? Equals, I think they both do everything brilliant but the HE-500 has better treble detail and better bass texture. HD650 has better mids, micro detail and resolution.

What sounds better than the HD650? Emotionally, nothing except neck and neck with the LCD-2PF. Technically I'd have to say some of the top headphones like the HE-1000, HE90, HD800(This actually a closer battle than you think) LCD-3PF and some of the Stax(hate the tonality of the SR009)

On lower end gear, the AKG K712, Annie, HE-400i, Nighthawk could be considered better headphones and I reviewed them as such as not everyone wants to build a big system for the HD650.




So that's my review thing...
So thinking about the HD650? any concerns? ask away and let's talk 650!

 

[Ryanr1987]

About time!

 

[Ryanr1987]

i know man I've gone full circle but I happen to have some money that isn't required for anything and I've recently had some bad news which has actually freed up some funds for me so silver linings and all that. So christmas present to myself will be the 650's which sadly have risen in price in the last 24 hours but i won't worry about that till next week.

I figured I'll get the 650's first then I'll probably look at buying the vali2

It will be money well spent! the Vali 2 is looking like another awesome bit of kit! slap some Mullards on there and I bet it will be heavenly.

I've seriously got to stop reading this stuff. Do I sell the 712s and get a pair or don't I?

The HD650 is flat out better, thing is if you gear is entry level the K712 will thrive better. Mids are better on the HD650 no matter what the gear. I like the AKG driver, it's a classic driver but it's lower in technical performance than the Sennheiser.

650 has this sound that just feels right and homely.

 

[Ryanr1987]

Many shops will let you demo, find out local stores near you. If you are in London I could meet you with my portable rig.

 

[Ryanr1987]

If you like em, keep em. If you want to take a next step then 650's are pretty much a stop point unless you want to go to sillyprice-fi

 

[Ryanr1987]

These a good upgrade from the K7XX's? Are the HD700 not worth the extra money?

Honestly the the HD700 are the biggest load of crap Sennheiser has put there name on! terrible headphone..

The K7XX shines on lower equipment better than the HD650. On mid-high end equipment the HD650 is in a different league. The K7XX is a great headphone though, really enjoyed it.

 

[Ryanr1987]

Yeah I've noticed the HD650 are more N shaped when they are not powered.

Compared to the X2 the HD650 images better. Soundstage is about equal. The X2 struggles with separation and can sound a bit blurred when things get busy. The problem with the 650 for gaming at least on consoles, is that it isn't as resolving as it can be. When I had the Bottlehead Crack, I connected it to my Mixamp and found it really good.

I personally would rather an AKG or AD700x for gaming.

 

[Ryanr1987]

Try the Nighthawk...I don't know why but I predict one will pop up on the members market as soon as a certain someone can pop on very cheap too. manz gotta save to search for that cherry picked LCD-2.

 

[Ryanr1987]

When I had my Crack the HD650 was very fast and agile. With the Chord Mojo on its own I get fantastic resolution and speed by I also get some of that warmth and slightly slower decay in comparison. What I like about the Mojo and 650 paring is its all about emotion and elegance rather than business. The Crack was warm and had a lush voicing but the speedball made it less so than other tube amps.

 

[Ryanr1987]

Have to disagree on that . I own the 598 / 600 and the 700 . 700 are my favs with the 598 beating the 600's Can have these on all day with no fatigue . Love them

I've never driven the HD600 to a high level like I have with the 650. I did find the HD600 driver to be a bit sloppy in comparison to the 650.

ergh I've never hated a headphone as much as the HD700 lol I like my headphones to sound as one where as the 700 sounds like it's tuned by two different companies it just doesn't sound correct to me.

That said I like the Nighthawk which most people seem to hate!

 

[Ryanr1987]

im upgrading from my hd650s to hd800s
cause for some reason i think its going to cost quite a bit to restore my hd650s as i need a new headband and new right speaker as the bass or the tweeter is broken in them, so i might just buy the hd800s as i know from experiance the hd650s are awesome so how more awesome can the hd800s be over them

The HD800 are not great for music IMO unless you do the mods which make them very good. Over the HD650 they have better resolution and better micro detail. The thing with the HD800 is they exaggerate the uppers making them sound very unnatural and coloured. The HD650 present the music in a smooth and natural way, no peaks just a smooth response from start to finish, the HD800 are meant to make you see everything in the music which also clouds out the emotion in a track.

650 has better mids and also sounds a bit more grounded but the HD800 is a bit better when it comes to the technical side of things. The only clear upgrade I've ever found without going into the 1k+ was an LCD-2 that I had a few years ago which was a bit better in almost all ways, mids where equal maybe slightly on the 650 and so was air and openness but extension in the bass, depth, impact everything went to this LCD-2.

I don't recommend the HD800 unless you are going to mod them but if you like that dry, maybe dull detailed sound then go for the HD800. The HD800 driver probably has the most potential out of the flagships! I still personally prefer the 650's LCD-2's and PM-1's for music.

 

[Ryanr1987]

Just goes to show how much it is down to individual perception with sound as I also love the hd700s whereas I actually have never particularly liked the hd650s I find them muddy.

If you got a muddy sound I can assure you that's your gear not being a good match for them. The 650 is smooth from bottom to top and the mid bass punch doesn't really bleed like it does on something like the Nighthawk and other mid bass phones.

 

[Ryanr1987]

Is there a perceivable difference when comparing the old grey box 650s vs the newer ones? I bought my set brand new in February of this year and think they're fantastic, but I still wonder what the older versions sound like.

I think it is actually the pads. I didn't think it was before but I've noticed my current pair have softer pads where as the previous ones had harder pads.

I've had an older black driver model and it was more of a darker headphone with a lusher sound. The silver driver is a superior driver with a quicker, more hifi sound.

 

[Ryanr1987]

i dont know if they are much worse, they are more 'different'. I think most people would agree that the 650s are better at what they do than the 700s are at what they do. I don't know if that makes them worse, i guess it depends on what you want.

The HD700 lacks coherency and doesn't quite present the music in a flowing, natural way. It also has an out of control treble section, it's too unnatural lacking smoothness and the vocal section feels too distant.

I agree it does depend on what someone wants. I personally can't find one section the HD700 does well in minus soundstage and passable imaging.

It was like they tried to mix the hd600 with the HD800 without taking into account both are made for different reasons(HD600 music HD800 high end music tool) it literally sounds like two headphones rolled into one, it doesn't work at all IMO.

Sounds like I'm hating lol I kind of am, but more frustrated that a company like Sennheiser has been putting out such crap in the last few years.

Anyone thinking about the HD700 I'm sorry but I've gotta be honest, check out the graphs also, while they are not always accurate, I think they give an idea of what to expect.

 

[Ryanr1987]

The talk of a treble spike on the hd700s is just silly. Head over to headfi and find a huge thread of people with no issue. Not denying the treble spike, but it is not horrible nor is it bad for all things.

The smoothness of the hd650s is the very thing that makes them muddy. They don't care what you listen to, they are kjng for listening to poor source material but if, like me, you prefer the detail then hd800s and to a lesser extent hd700s are amazing. I will admit this is not to everyones tastes and is why it makes no sense for people to say they are upgrading to hd800s from the 650s as the sound and the aim of the phones is so different.

Saying the treble spike is silly then quoting headfi which is probably one of the most unreliable sites for serious audio is quite funny. The talk about the HD700 is from the big massive treble spike, you can miss it it basically creates the HD700's sound giving it more forced detail. Also the complaints about the HD700 have been pretty big from top reviewers..

What are you talking about? smooth response doesn't create a muddy response, a mid bass hump with a rolled off treble and dipped upper mids can create a a muddy effect..so can high distortion, lack of openness ether in the pads or the ear cups can also create this.

A smooth response means there's no peaks or dips, nothing will be recessed and if the driver is well made which the 600 series drivers are, you get higher resolution, better micro detail no no false imagining.. all that.

If you are getting a muddy sound something is either wrong with the phones or your gear isn't a good match. The HD650 also don't mask up bad recordings, bad recordings sound crap on the HD650, the Nighthawk is a headphone for that.

What did you drive the HD650 with?

 

[Ryanr1987]

I drove the 650s with a basic soundcard, magni stack, lyr2, and an audeze deckard. Simple fact is to me they sound muddy. To you they don't. I am not disputing your hearing nor am I claiming the hd700s are perfect without treble, rather i was pointing to the fact that large numbers of people use them without issue and the treble peak is either not noticed or is not severe enough to be an issue for plenty of people.

Sound is massively down to individual perception. I did not join this thread to criticise the hd650s (i think they are fantastic for what they are) but i felt a balanced view is important and when i see criticism of the hd700s i tend to defend them as i have a soft spot for them as one of my first high end headphones.

On a side note, headfi is a huge forum dedicated to audio equipment, to say it is unreliable is to say the ocuk forums are unreliable, all forums are unreliable to an extent....it is about the discussion, for every unreliable post their is a contrary point to help educate you. The trouble with reviews on sound equipment is it is so subjective and unless you test each piece of equipment used by the same reviewer and felt it was exactly the same as the review reports, it is all opinion and should be backed up with personal testing.

Anyway, didnt comment to annoy anyone, just thought i would add my two cents.

You didn't annoy me and doesn't look like anyone got offended. Yup sound preference e is a personal thing but frequency response isn't. If you prefer the HD700 that's cool, I'm just pointing out its faults and when I weigh up everything like tonal balance, coherency, speed of the driver I just think it's a really bad headphone.

 

[Ryanr1987]

can you compare the HD598s to the HD650s? i hear the 598 sound the same but with a bit more bass and i tiny bit of a mid range sound stage difference, hence why I cant justify and extra 120 quid for that minor difference?

also the AKG 712s, isnt that better?

Ive bought the AKG M50X 2 days ago, it sounds the same as the Momentoms over ear, hence why I returned the momentoms, but the M50X does sound pretty decent on my ZX.

Tomorrow im picking up the 518s as ive considered the 598s but hear the 518/558/598 have the same drivers, its just the housing thats different

Might be same with the 600s and the 650s as im sure its the same driver.

Im gonna sell my wireless H and my old 515s to cover the cost...

I must admit that I looked into the 650s as there are some excellent deals going on the Zon right now, I looked at the 990 250ohm and the 712s and the 650s, so im still kind of deciding what to do...

Where did you hear that? The 598 is a basic entry level headphone. The 650 is a headphone that competes with the likes of the Audeze's, Hifiman's and best many of them. It's a different world of resolution and the whole lot, 650 does everything better. 598 has a wider soundstage but is doesn't sound conected like the 650.

If you want a serious high end headphone that is natural, scalable, end game then go 650.

K712 is good, sounds better out of low end gear. 650 is better.

 

[Ryanr1987]

I didn't appreciate cohesiveness as much until recently! It's amazing how many headphones lack in this area! The AKG's lack here big time, the newer Denon's and many others. The HE-500 I thought done nearly as good of a job as the 650.

I now consider things like coherency, resolution as much as I do mids and sub bass. Sadly the 650 don't have quite the sub bass as something like an Audeze or Night or Fostex but the rest is perfect.

 

[Ryanr1987]

how do the 650's compare to the he 400i?

The HE-400i seems to come in 2 forms, you either get a more dark sound with forward mids or a more bright sound with more bass extension and less forward mids.

The main difference is the way the HD650 handles it's background and midrange. The 650 picks out small details better and the driver is overall quicker and more precise. 400i handles bass a bit better but I found impact to be equal, 400i when it comes to vocals sounds more blurred where as the 650 has better clarity, more natural. 400i has good mids, it's not quite HD650. The older one I had was actually more closer to the HD650 but Hifiman seem to have left that sound behind or it was the typical inconsistencies.

The 400i is easier to drive thus sounds better as a whole when you drive from phones, DAP's where as with an amp I think the 650 sounds better regardless.

Treble smoothness 650>400i
Treble extension 400i>650
Detail 650>400
Mids 650>400i
Vocal enjoyment 650>400i
Micro detail 650>400i
Bass extension 400i>650
Impact 400i>650(close)
Smoothness across the entire response 650>400i
Quality control & Consistency between drivers 650>>>>>>>>>>>>>>400i

The HD650 has all the detail you need before going into analytical area. It's only fault is the bass area which is still pretty darn good.

Unless you are going to try find an old revision 2 LCD-2 nothing really beats the HD650 under 1k.

 

[Ryanr1987]

That's a good price. Just don't do what I did with the LCD-2. I bought a pair, sold them as I needed the funds at the time with always my end goal to buy a pair again. I kept putting them off still with the end goal then boom, they changed them by adding them silly fazors and even worse quality control and now all pre fazor are either out of warranty, or nobody wants to sale them...

Now I'm waiting for them to fix the fazors which will prob never happen lol

My point? get the 650! read this http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd650-love.44/

This guy, he comes across a bit arrogant but his headphone knowledge is impressive, he also has a good measurement system that actually sounds closer to how they sound to my own ears where as Tyll's seems more flashy.