Sheva=flop?

NokkonWud said:
Or second for that matter, but he's been unstopable so far this season.
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Well, he started to show his true talent about 3/4 of the way through last season, but that was in the middle of the whole diving witchhunt, so not many noticed because they were too busy examining the replay every time he went down.
Glad he's knocked that diving rubbish on the head now, it really didn't suit him.
 
Gilly said:
Of course I did. There's no point me quoting everything if it adds nothing though.
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You mean theres no point in saying anymore past 'Not Really'?
Hmm, i wonder why? ;)

Again, neither the article, or me, are comparing the midfields in a negative sence.
Both are saying that Milan dont play the ball over the top as often as Chelsea, and that Sheva isnt used to that.
 
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BoomAM said:
No he doesnt. People over here want him to prove he can 'handle' it in the Premiership, but he has nothing to prove. He is a world class striker and regardless of how he does over here, he remains so. Legend at Kyiv, legend at Milan, Legend in Ukraine. What he does over here cant take away from the fact that he's arguably been one of the best strikers of the last 5-10years.
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You are missing the point. I've already conceded that he is a world class player, and he doesn't need to prove that. He still has to prove that he can 'handle' the Premiership though, he can't just get a free exemption because he's a great player. Whether or not he is a success in the Premiership has no real bearing on his overall quality as a player, but it DOES have a bearing on how good a Premiership player he is.
 
HangTime said:
You are missing the point. I've already conceded that he is a world class player, and he doesn't need to prove that. He still has to prove that he can 'handle' the Premiership though, he can't just get a free exemption because he's a great player. Whether or not he is a success in the Premiership has no real bearing on his overall quality as a player, but it DOES have a bearing on how good a Premiership player he is.
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Again, wether you mean to imply it or not, your implying that the Prem is some 'super-league' that only the best of the best survive in. When its anything but. I doubt your mean it that way, but thats how it comes across.
If he fails in the prem, it, as you have said, doesnt make him less of a player, but it will lead most of this country to compare him to this countrys top striker, a player, who regardless of how he was used, failed in Shevas stomping grounds. But thats a different topic all together.
Point is, that if he fails, which i dont personally think he will, the football 'fans' over here will critisise him till the cows come home for it. Which will be vastly unfair on him.
 
Nothing wrong with people comparing him to Henry.

Henry is a world class player, who didn't deliver in one league
Shevchenko is a world class player, who hasn't delievered in one league (as yet... too early for a proper judgement IMO).

Point being: Judging a player solely by their performance in one league is a bit harsh. Some might argue that a genuninely 'world class' player should perform regardles of circumstances; I'm not so sure, provided players deliver on the big stages (WC/EC/CL) and have a good record overall at club level I think it's still fair to brand them world class.

Inference: Even World Class players can 'flop' (by their standards) in a given league.
 
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HangTime said:
Nothing wrong with people comparing him to Henry.

Henry is a world class player, who didn't deliver in one league
Shevchenko is a world class player, who hasn't delievered in one league (as yet... too early for a proper judgement IMO).

Point being: Judging a player solely by their performance in one league is a bit harsh. Some might argue that a genuninely 'world class' player should perform regardles of circumstances; I'm not so sure, provided players deliver on the big stages (WC/EC/CL) and have a good record overall at club level I think it's still fair to brand them world class.

Inference: Even World Class players can 'flop' (by their standards) in a given league.
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I completely agree.
But the problem is, that 90% of the country doesnt see it like that.
They seem him fail here, and make the 'over-hyped' comments. Just like countless other 'world class' players. Again, my point isnt againt you. :)
But, theres time for him to prove everyone wrong yet. :p
 
mcwildcard said:
Well, he started to show his true talent about 3/4 of the way through last season, but that was in the middle of the whole diving witchhunt, so not many noticed because they were too busy examining the replay every time he went down.
Glad he's knocked that diving rubbish on the head now, it really didn't suit him.
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A quality player doesn't have to do what he was doing, therefore I couldn't class it as ability etc.. Everything he did well (which last season wasn't often) was overshadowed by everything poor or questionable (which far outweighed the quality stuff).
 
I'd hardly call Sheva a flop.. it's still early days. He is a class act.

If he still isn't scoring by January.. then perhaps people can start to talk..

Although I am not entirely convinced Chelsea are playing anything like towards Sheva's strengths which is strange.
 
moody said:
The games I've seen him in he's played quite well. It seems to me that people are making the assumption that because he isn't scoring he must be playing badly.
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Yeah, it'll probably be another month or so before he starts scoring.
 
Nonsense to call him a flop. No matter how big a reputation is every foreign player needs a minimum of 6 months to settle in and then a season on top of that to prove themselves IMO. Also the fact Chelsea's system is not yet really making best use of him makes things worse imo. Chelsea haven't exactly got the most creative midfield around so that makes things tough for him but he will come good unfortunately

Silly to start calling people a flop so quickly, look at for example Henry in Italy. The reason why Henry is called a flop in Italy is because he didn't get a fair crack at it, he was only there for around 6 months and started only 12 games before being sold. The people at Juve incl the manager at the time Ancelotti have come out and said they were wrong and that is sometimes the price you pay for not giving a player a proper chance.
 
Jazz said:
...Chelsea haven't exactly got the most creative midfield around so that makes things tough for him but he will come good unfortunately.
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Thats sort of the point i was trying to make with Gilly. But 'aparentely' it wasnt applicable. :p
 
Just because JAzz agrees with you doesn't make it right. In fact, it means the opposite. The fact that you two agree makes it rubbish :p

Robben, Cole, Cole, Lampard, Ballack...

Not creative. OK :)
 
Gilly said:
Just because JAzz agrees with you doesn't make it right. In fact, it means the opposite. The fact that you two agree makes it rubbish :p

Robben, Cole, Cole, Lampard, Ballack...

Not creative. OK :)
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Not quite as creative as prehaps Pirlo, Kaka, Rui Costa(Gourcuff) & Seedorf though is it? ;)
Or Rosicky, Gilberto, Fabregas & Ljungberg.
Or C.Ronaldo, Park, Carrick & Giggs.

Dont get me wrong, Chelseas midfield isnt stagnant, but they arnt all that creative compared to a lot of midfields. They know how to grind out a result, which is exactely what Jose wants from them.
Theres only 1 player (Cole), whos likely to do something completely unexpected. Lampard/Ballack/Essian are all v.good players, but are more of 'strait forward' midfielders. Robben has only one 'setting', and thats run like a madman with the ball. Cole is creative however.
Again, the reason for it isnt because they arnt good players, far from it. But Chelsea have rarely been described as being good to watch have they. And thats because they dont have a true creative player pulling the strings for them.
I'd put 'imo' on the end of it, but knowing you, you'd just cut out all the above, leave 'imo' in a quote and make some sarcastic comment! :p
 
BoomAM said:
Not quite as creative as prehaps Pirlo, Kaka, Rui Costa(Gourcuff) & Seedorf though is it? ;)
Or Rosicky, Gilberto, Fabregas & Ljungberg.
Or C.Ronaldo, Park, Carrick & Giggs.
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Doesn't look out of place alongside them.
 
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