Soldato
The amount of imagining you do is part of the problem.
Shocking CIA torture report
- Thread starter AGD
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The amount of imagining you do is part of the problem.
It isn't anything really - take a look at the report - they didn't gain anything they didn't already have information of....
I don't recall reading that there were no such situations. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I do understand, I am not a supporter of torture techniques. I'm one of those that realises it does happen (to some this was a comeplete shock) and why it unfortunately happens.
It may not be effective. But it has to work in some/ few cases. Otherwise torture wouldn't have been around since day dot.
Is it efficient enough to carry on using? Probably not. Will it stop? Probably not.
To make the direct comparison that people who torture terrorists are as bad as people who cut off innocents heads and post it on the internet was also one thing that didn't sit right with me. They both aren't nice, and should not happen. But one sits a lot more comfortably with me than the other.
not to nitpick. but the report is missing about 6000 pages.
Soldato
Except most of the killings from these extremist groups are on other Muslims/non Muslins in there own country
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30420218
Sure the "west" don't help matters but is it the "wests" fault that the likes of boka haram go into shopping malls and quarry in Kenya single out people who are not part of the isalmic faith and then kill them just for that ?
Think this is where we cross wires.
I have never been pro-torture. Never been in favour of torture. I have just explained why torture is used (effectively or not) compared to more effective methods.
There HAS to have been some success of torture. Otherwise it wouldn't have come about.
Nowadays, and going by the report, it's dated and inefficient. Probably a lot to do with our enemy. These are people who are prepared to die for what they believe in.
Soldato
Agreed, sums up "the (wild) West" pretty much in a short sentence.
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Yeah and we should totally bring by dunkings and trial by ordeal because they must have worked or it wouldn't have come about.
The summary in the report is very clear. Torture didn't work more effectively than any other method.
Some roman guy had this figured out centuries ago - the strong man will tell you nothing and the weak or broken man will tell you whatever he thinks will make it stop.
Soldato
*EDIT*
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Soldato
Yes because they are trying to overthrow the governments in these countries.
..and that isn't Boko Haram, it's Al Shabab, they killed non-muslims in retaliation for Kenya killing Somalian Muslim's, the fighting between the two go back a few years.
Soldato
I'm really not surprised the US and it's allies use brutal torture on people, break every law imaginable mean while on the other hand pretend to be some beacon of good in the world. Scary thing is this is only a few pages from thousands that the CIA allowed to be shown (that is not even taking into account much of the evidence has been destroyed for this exact purpose)
It's amusing seeing sound bites like “we hold ourselves accountable to an ugly, horrible period and we should be proud of our ability to do that" Guessing some don't understand what accountable means.
It's amusing seeing sound bites like “we hold ourselves accountable to an ugly, horrible period and we should be proud of our ability to do that" Guessing some don't understand what accountable means.
name another Religion or Political Ideology that causes as much unrest,death and terror as Islam does right now.
of course I never said nobody else kills,but then you know that.
Soldato
Christianity or Capitalism ? Aren't Bush and Blair Christians? (one of the reasons they went to war in the middle east)
only catching up to your 'religion',that's all, although death cult is probably more appropriate.
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Fail to understand the 'shock' reaction, anyone who thought this wasn't going on lives in dreamland.
The difference between the USA/UK etc is that we do it behind closed doors and use it for information gathering while groups like ISIS etc do it in the open and use it as a phycological weapon for their cause..
Man is the cruelest animal it's been with us since our creation and anyone of us is capable of it. It's neither wrong or right it just is.. And all the pitchfork waving is just people being forced to face their illusions with realisation that the world we live in isn't all honour, morals principles and sweet smelling flowers. It's a cruel world and also a compassionate world, just accept it and hope yourself or someone you love is never touched by the cruel side of human Nature.
All pitchforks and rose tinted glasses placed in the skip outside please.
The difference between the USA/UK etc is that we do it behind closed doors and use it for information gathering while groups like ISIS etc do it in the open and use it as a phycological weapon for their cause..
Man is the cruelest animal it's been with us since our creation and anyone of us is capable of it. It's neither wrong or right it just is.. And all the pitchfork waving is just people being forced to face their illusions with realisation that the world we live in isn't all honour, morals principles and sweet smelling flowers. It's a cruel world and also a compassionate world, just accept it and hope yourself or someone you love is never touched by the cruel side of human Nature.
All pitchforks and rose tinted glasses placed in the skip outside please.
Well can you name another group that has killed 5000 in the last month like all the various muslim terror groups have.
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Soldato
Soldato
erm...so what have the Western nations been doing for the last 200 years and present? What about all the unrest, death and terror in the name of secular liberalism, democracy, capitalism, communism, then christian occupation, judaic occupation, hindu nationalist massacres etc.
Some people honestly live under rocks or see everything blindfolded. What you are seeing in the Muslim world is merely a blowback from the actions of the Europeans from the past and the West in the present.
neither Christianity nor Capitalism tell me how I'm supposed to live and neither try and bomb me back to the middle ages, nice try though.
by the way,here's your 'religion of love,peace and understanding' at work. Be proud and allah u snackbar or whatever.... :roll eyes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30080914
Jihadist attacks killed more than 5,000 people in just one month, an investigation by the BBC World Service and King's College London has found.