shooting in gay club orlando

soundb0y said:
Not proposing anything, just think its ridiculous everyone clamoring about that Islam is not the problem. In my eyes it is.
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I think it's a couple of things. Firstly, the guy was clearly a nutcase. Secondly, he subscribes to a (one of many) homophobic religion, that will tell you that gay people are unnatural, children of the devil, sinners etc. That's despicable.

So the second issue is really a combination of religion and homophobia, which is perpetuated by the religion and the cultures surrounding that religion.

I think it's despicable that religions can continue to be openly homophobic or at least anti-homosexuality. I also suspect that this guy would have just chosen another target if it hadn't been this gay bar, but I obviously can't be sure of that.
 
Chris Wilson said:
No idea, caressing the victim gently with the gun barrel before pulling the trigger? Seems bizarre, I found the chart here:

http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/
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A. To me, it looks like something else happened around 2000 that made those shoot up.

B. The restrictions put in place mean that there is now more opportunity for there to be a firearms offence. The same way that if you made alcohol illegal, there would be an upsurge in alcohol related crime, as currently those things are not against the law.
 
krooton said:
A. To me, it looks like something else happened around 2000 that made those shoot up.

B. The restrictions put in place mean that there is now more opportunity for there to be a firearms offence. The same way that if you made alcohol illegal, there would be an upsurge in alcohol related crime, as currently those things are not against the law.
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From memory there was a lot of drug gang war related shootings around that period.
 
ak22 said:
Being gay is considered a sin I'm on about murdering Innocent people, it does not matter if your gay or not murder is not allowed.
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/devils advocate

Isn't the question more one of perception, than plain law - from the perspective of *some* devout Muslims, a gay person might not be innocent and therefore it wouldn't be murder in their eyes.

*shrugs*
 
krooton said:
A. To me, it looks like something else happened around 2000 that made those shoot up.

B. The restrictions put in place mean that there is now more opportunity for there to be a firearms offence. The same way that if you made alcohol illegal, there would be an upsurge in alcohol related crime, as currently those things are not against the law.
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Harold Shipman's numbers went into 2002.

Chris Wilson said:
From memory there was a lot of drug gang war related shootings around that period.
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The chart is overall homicides, rather than gun homicides.
 
Screeeech said:
/devils advocate

Isn't the question more one of perception, than plain law - from the perspective of *some* devout Muslims, a gay person might not be innocent and therefore it wouldn't be murder in their eyes.

*shrugs*
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Your right that is why the Quran clearly states rules of when your aloud to kill, being gay is not one of them. Murder is equal to killing the whole of humanity.
 
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There was also the minor matter of a terrorist attack in London that resulted in a lot of casualties.

It's also worth noting that our murder rate even without millions of guns in private hands to protect us (mainly from the millions of guns in private hands) are something like a a quarter or less than the U.S. and a part of that is that because we don't go around routinely armed an argument is far less likely to lead to a murder.

From memory the murder rate in the UK has been going down, and the number as a result of guns has nearly halved since 2000 or so.
I think it was 40 or something a couple of years back, literally a 1 in a million chance of being murdered with a gun.
 
SlyReaper said:
My Facebook feed is full of people rushing to disassociate the gunman from Islam. Seems to happen every time a muslim does something awful - "oh, he wasn't a true muslim, no true muslim would be violent". It's doing my head in. When the perpetrator basically does everything short of yelling "I'm about to murder you because Islam", why do all the apologists come crawling out of the woodwork?

Yes, everyone knows it's not ALL muslims. Nobody is saying it's all muslims. But pretending there isn't a problem helps no-one.
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I think the same, same old people spouting same old waffle.

The question of what is a proper\true Muslim,

ISIS etc think of themselves as proper\true Muslims, as apparently they follow Islam\The Quran the way it should be followed.

So in the eyes of ISIS etc all you non murdering Muslims are not proper\true Muslims because you don't follow Islam\The Quran in the correct way.

And

In the eyes of all you non-murdering Muslims ISIS etc are not true\proper Muslims.

Who is right :)
 
Again, if you want to be religious then good luck to you. As long as it doesn't become an evil cult more than a religion its all good. Freedom and all. Christianity while i'm fairly certain its as ridiculous as Islam in many ways, at least it doesn't typically do more harm than good. Christian aid as an example? Wheres Islam Aid? Yes there's problems with it too, Catholics vs Protestants. But i do not know of any instances where a Catholic has actually chopped the head off a protestant and hung it up in front of a camera pledging his allegiance to the cross ! Or gone around with a semi shooting up crowds and crowds shouting in the name of JESUS CHRIST !!!! cos they're non believers. If you can't accept that Islam is the problem, then you're the problem !

Polls show that there's very strong sympathy towards radical islam in the western world. When it tips the scale of bringing more bad then good, then its time to quash it ! Personally i don't care how. But like facism and nazism was shutdown, so should Islam be. Not welcomed like Hillary is spouting? Or Merkel is doing. Its not going to end well for the Western World. This is just the start of how things are going to end up for us all. There will end up being car bombs and mass shootings on a monthly basis. The Western world will end up being like Israel or any of the Arab countries if we continue to welcome people of this religion into our weak welcoming culture.

Look at this list for the amount of Islamic related terror attacks in just 2016 !!!!!!!!!

The list is pretty long.... Find a list that shows ANY other religion's related attacks in 2016 please. Then come bakc and tell me the religion of Islam isn't a problem.
 
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