Should prohibition end?

[Burnsy2023]

It's all semantics really, but then some people use film, books and other activities to escape from things.

Let's be honest here, the two aren't really comparable.

 

[Vulcan]

you just have to spend a night in A&E on a Friday night to see that - I dread to think what stronger drugs will do.

Most of the people admitted to A&E on a Friday night are as a result of alcohol.

If people got stoned on marijuana they would probably stay at home and laugh at stupid stuff on the TV.

So why you may not agree on stronger drugs, do you feel that marijuana should be legalised, or alcohol banned?

 

[Burnsy2023]

So why you may not agree on stronger drugs, do you feel that marijuana should be legalised, or alcohol banned?

You are assuming that drug legality is based on only it's harm. This isn't the case.

 

[Shayper]

I'll be honest, I just don't understand why people would want to take these sort of drugs. I like to be in control of my facilities and I don't understand people who don't.

Because sometimes being in control can be too much, and you just want to relax. Remember the London meet, when I was ridiculously hyper? I really don't enjoy being like that most of the time, and weed calms me down.

 

[Pate]

At the end of the day, surely you have the right to do what you want with your own body? The law should only intervene if you are encroaching on otheres?

Coming from someone who isn't a drug user.

 

[Vulcan]

You are assuming that drug legality is based on only it's harm. This isn't the case.

So what is the basis for keeping marijuana banned?

 

[krooton]

At the end of the day, surely you have the right to do what you want with your own body? The law should only intervene if you are encroaching on otheres?

Coming from someone who isn't a drug user.

Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing, but is often lost in favour of the "we know what is good for you" brigade.

I mean, it's not like the government has a history of getting too involved in peoples' business or anything...

 

[Stretch]

The thing is you just have to look at the VAST number of people that have addiction with gambling, drugs, sex etc... it's not an insignificant number.

Irrespective of whether or not people do get addicted, what if people have adverse reactions to them?

What about the social implications? The mum that gets stoned and her baby gets ignored? The young lads that get high and fall out of the window, or get hit by a car when they cross the road without being aware? etc...

sure, I agree, these happen every day already without the use of drugs, and I can't of course state that it'll get any worse. However, the way I see it, there's already enough people being admitted to hospital with legal drug issues, you just have to spend a night in A&E on a Friday night to see that - I dread to think what stronger drugs will do.

Just go down to your local A&E today because it's already happening.

I have to also, accept though, that the word "recreational" is an important one. If people aren't addicted, and don't rely on them, and use them in a responsible way - then I accept that the implications are actually probably better than they are now. I accept that. I'm not worried about the sensible people though, as they will be sensible. It's the kids, or the people that don't know when to stop or how to say no.

Where do we draw the line to what is legal? Heroine?! I've seen 1st hand unfortunately, what heroine addiction can do - it's traumatic, for the family and friends. Even with treatment, it almost feels that part of his soul has been subdued - and I find that really upsetting.

Ok, I admit, I am using personal exeprience and reaction to my argument which is daft, however it's hard to be completely objective on a subject like this.

The problem is I just don't think people would use them responsibly.

The problem is making substances illegal doesn’t prevent people taking them or abusing them. Drugs are readily available for those that want them. The only difference is the price is high and quality unpredictable. I don't believe that benefits society in any way. People who take drugs spend a lot of money obtaining them and the police spend a lot of money trying to stop them. This is a deadweight loss and achieves nothing in the long term.

Highly addictive substances are a terrible thing and in an ideal world they wouldn't exist. However no amount of legislation or wishful thinking will make them go away. The debate is how do we best manage their presence.

One thing that is very telling is heroin addicts very rarely go to prison solely for possession of heroin. It's almost always for theft. In that sense the law on drugs is already meaningless for people who take highly addictive substances like heroin and crack cocaine. The effect of removing the law on possession would actually be very limited. Managing the supply is key.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Because sometimes being in control can be too much, and you just want to relax. Remember the London meet, when I was ridiculously hyper? I really don't enjoy being like that most of the time, and weed calms me down.

You were rather hyper. Maybe a horse tranquillizer would be better?

At the end of the day, surely you have the right to do what you want with your own body? The law should only intervene if you are encroaching on otheres?

Coming from someone who isn't a drug user.

The line is somewhat blurred when you have the NHS etc having to cope with the aftermath.

So what is the basis for keeping marijuana banned?

The fact there are so many unknowns about the potential effects on society makes the political ramifications huge.

 

[Shayper]

You were rather hyper. Maybe a horse tranquillizer would be better?

Maybe, I wouldn't know.

 

[Raikiri]

of course they would

Half the reason so many of us don't do it or restrict their use is due to its illegality and price.

if it was legal and freely available the number of users would go up.

Who said it should be freely available? It should be very heavily taxed much like cigs and booze.

And I really don't think it would increase usage levels too much, it's not exactly hard to get as it is if the cro-magnons in burberry caps can manage it.

There's plenty of evidence out there about Portugal to show you that decriminalising the use of drugs has no detrimental effect. Going one step further and actually regulating the supply would only make it safer.

cannabis turns you into a moron - no two ways about it

Well that's not true though, is it?

For example Francis Crick, the nobel prize winning biologist and geneticist was using LSD when he discovered DNA. He was also a founding member of SOMA, a group that was pro marijuana legalisation.

I still wouldn't take it myself, but to claim it makes people into a moron is in itself idiotic and disingenuine.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Who said it should be freely available? It should be very heavily taxed much like cigs and booze.

Booze is still very freely available. I would say too available.

 

[Fr0dders]

Who said it should be freely available? It should be very heavily taxed much like cigs and booze.

yeah because time and time again the government have proven that adding tax onto cigs and booze stops people using them. .... oh wait

 

[RDM]

I would certainly say that we need a significantly different approach to drugs as the current one does not seem to be working out all that well.

Obviously I could not say if making drugs legal would mean more people would use them, but I think we can assume, that if done well, more people would use them safely. I know personal experience is of relatively little use but I can pretty safely say that the legality of drugs makes no difference at all to me, I don't take them because I don't want to take them, not because they are illegal.

I would say though that before we can have a sensible discussion on drugs we need the press to either butt out or suddenly develop a sense of perspective and we need both sides to start being a little bit more honest. Too many anti-drug people going on about how harmful they are and what a scourge they are whilst at the same time too many pro-drug people banging on about them being harmless.

What I would like to see is legalisation of some of the less dangerous drugs, the ones that can be used recreationally with little damage. But have the places they can be sold highly controlled. For the more dangerous drugs I would prefer to see them decriminalised and legal "shooting galleries" set up, where users can get clean drugs for free, clean needles for free and a safe secure environment to abuse themselves. At the same time they can also be given the necessary treatment for the root causes of their addiction. Never going to happen though as most people would baulk at the cost especially on such "undesirable" people.

 

[krooton]

yeah because time and time again the government have proven that adding tax onto cigs and booze stops people using them. .... oh wait

It should be down to choice. People really want to smoke? Then pay yer way, the money made from tax more than covers the cost of smokers to the NHS.

A bit win-win imo.

 

[Raikiri]

yeah because time and time again the government have proven that adding tax onto cigs and booze stops people using them. .... oh wait

I didn't say it would stop people from using them, just that they wouldn't be freely available (freely meaning unregulated/cheap). So have your back.

I don't think people would use use them purely because they don't want to, illegal or not.

 

[Freefaller]

Most of the people admitted to A&E on a Friday night are as a result of alcohol.

If people got stoned on marijuana they would probably stay at home and laugh at stupid stuff on the TV.

So why you may not agree on stronger drugs, do you feel that marijuana should be legalised, or alcohol banned?

The OP is about all drugs - I'm undecided on mary jane as for a start driving on it is fairly dangerous, and making it more readily available would lead to people being just as flippant as they are with drink driving - if not more.

A&E and alcohol are definitely a huge problem - but that's my point, when you take coke for example, and drink, the coke minimises the effect of alcohol, and as such you can potentially drink a LOT more when you're high on cocaine - as it intereferes with parts of the brain that alcohol interacts with. AS such you're potentially still poisoning yourself owing the vast amount of alcohol you potentially can consume when doped up.

Also, sure marijuana may not have that immediate effect, but it has been proven that in SOME cases it can have negative semi-permanent psychotropic effects on people.

Don;'t get me wrong as I've said I've dabbled in the past - and admit that I did enjoy myself. However, I have self control as do most people I'm sure - but the fear for me is people continually using it because it becomes so readily available that we end up being a nation of drug dependents - which in some cases we already are for the amount of people binging on alcohol.

I'm not into banning things unnecessarily, and whilst this argument could be used against me there are small benefits from being able to have a glass of wine or two in the evenings. Alcohol used responsibly is actually healthy for you. Smoking isn't, hard drugs aren't either. Sure, I'm saying this because I enjoy a glass or two of wine from time to time, or a few beers with friends. However, I don't believe in getting completely off my trolley. However, if I was told I could never drink again it wouldn't be the end of my world at all.

Honestly, if people were all sensible and took it some of these things sensibly then I doubt there will ever be a problem. It's the abuse of these drugs that will cause a problem. Abuse of any drug (Even alcohol) is dramatic to the body. As such because we can't train people to use these things sensibly it leaves us with only the ability to ban them.

I admit it would be interesting to see how people got on if they did legalise it as an experiment (closely monitored).

However, I find it already a little disconcerting walking around the streets of a city at night with the amount of drunks about, it would be just as bad/worse with lots of "high" people everywhere or doped people. It's the factors we can't control, how long it stays in your system etc...

So if they brought in legislation allowing drugs, then they should give employers the ability to test their staff in the mornings to ensure they are fit for purpose. I've sent numerous staff home that were still drunk from the night before - or not in a fit state to work. If I have the ability to test people then fine. I don't want to be around people that will potentially cause me harm by not being in a fit state to work or operate tools/machinery.

If they bring this in, then fine. No probs. However, I fear we'd see an increase in road deaths, and life altering injuries and issues. I also think that it wouldn't be conducive to the improvement of the population - it'd invite a lot of people from around the world to come and get off their face in the UK and abuse the systems and put even more strain on the NHS.

All the people on OcUK are fairly well educated, controlled and responsible people, unfortunately it doesn't account for the majority of the population which would just abuse the system. We do live in a little bubble of ideology sometimes I think.

 

[Craig1981]

Drugs are bad, m'kay? So you shouldnt do drugs. Cause their bad. M'kay?

 

[krooton]

If they bring this in, then fine. No probs. However, I fear we'd see an increase in road deaths, and life altering injuries and issues. I also think that it wouldn't be conducive to the improvement of the population - it'd invite a lot of people from around the world to come and get off their face in the UK and abuse the systems and put even more strain on the NHS.

If done correctly, the NHS would get a massive boost in funding, alleviating strain. Also, only make the legislation only valid to UK citizens, still illegal for drug tourists.

 

[Freefaller]

If done correctly, the NHS would get a massive boost in funding, alleviating strain. Also, only make the legislation only valid to UK citizens, still illegal for drug tourists.

Yeah like that's going to stop visitors getting it

Boost in funding? With what money?! The NHS is already broke... and the government and private firms have no money to offer them as it stands.