Should prohibition end?

[Burnsy2023]

I don't think it would make there be any less criminality, they'd find other ways. There's still a huge amount of cigarette smuggling that goes on - so I'm sure the days of undercut drugs would be on their way.

Agreed, people would still cause crime to get the money for the drugs. Whether that goes to a company or drug dealer is irrelevant (for the point I am making).

 

[arknor]

I worked in a Juvenile Prison for a while and I disagree with you.
Virtually every offender was under the influence while committing their crime (or so they say).

probably why they got caught then lol to stoned to run

of course they would

Half the reason so many of us don't do it or restrict their use is due to its illegality and price.

if it was legal and freely available the number of users would go up.

so how come barely anyone does poppers?

 

[Burnsy2023]

imho, Cannabis should be legal.

I personally find people's attitude against Cannabis funny when they don't seem to mind alcohol and smoking so much. Same goes for the papers.

I mind cannabis, smoking and to some degree alcohol. If I could ban smoking totally I would and I would restrict the sale of alcohol much more than it is currently.

 

[krooton]

Why would you want people to be able to sniff, inject, smoke their way to death legally anyway?

Because it rarely leads to death?

I've seen a few people throw anecdotal stuff out there, so I will too.

Number of years I have been around people who do illegal drugs: 13
Number of users I have met and been social with over that time: 250ish
Number of deaths I have witnessed as a result of illegal drugs: 0
Number of hospitalisations I have witness as a result of illegal drugs: 1
Number of hospitalisations I have witnessed as a result of legal drugs: 9
Number of deaths I have witnessed as a result of riding a motorcycle: 3

As it stands, a large chunk of the population will demonise a young couple who stay in over the weekend to have some ecstasy in the comfort of their own home, over a guy who goes out drinking, gets bladdered, has a violent altercation, pukes on a pavement, and wakes up covered in kebab with traffic cone he doesn't recall acquiring.

Using illegal drugs does not make someone dangerous/an idiot/a loser, those people tend to be like that whether sober/legally 'high'/illegally 'high'.

 

[krooton]

Agreed, people would still cause crime to get the money for the drugs. Whether that goes to a company or drug dealer is irrelevant (for the point I am making).

People commit crime to get many things they can't afford, should we ban those things too?

 

[Burnsy2023]

Because it rarely leads to death?

So does knife swallowing. That's hardly a reason to do it.

Using illegal drugs does not make someone dangerous/an idiot/a loser, those people tend to be like that whether sober/legally 'high'/illegally 'high'.

So it just makes them more of an idiot/loser/dangerous? How many people on drugs fit in to this category? All? Some?

 

[Burnsy2023]

People commit crime to get many things they can't afford, should we ban those things too?

Most of those aren't habitually addictive.

 

[krooton]

So does knife swallowing. That's hardly a reason to do it.

So that should be banned as well? Shall we include horse-riding and sky-diving, given they are statistically more likely to result in injury or death than drug use?

So it just makes them more of an idiot/loser/dangerous? How many people on drugs fit in to this category? All? Some?

More than just illegal drugs can magnify the inherent idiocy in a person, caffeine as an example.

 

[semi-pro waster]

So that should be banned as well? Shall we include horse-riding and sky-diving, given they are statistically more likely to result in injury or death than drug use?

Wouldn't you need some way to factor in a cost/benefit analysis? The argument that there are other things more likely to injure you than drugs is fine up to a point but if the other options more likely to injure you also have corrollary benefits e.g. reduce the risk of heart disease through exercise for instance then would that not have to be weighed against it?

As I said I've no particularly strong feelings about the argument but just curious.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

no it shouldnt be legalized absolutely not, I feel disgusted for the human race when i see a pothead (much the same wasy as i do for the binge drinkers too).
cannabis turns you into a moron - no two ways about it, and i find it funny when people are so into a toxic chemical that they somehow see it as a rite of passage and then like to brag about it on forums in one form or another.

but all things considered i would like to see a massive crack down on alcohol before this drug issue gets resolved.

 

[Freefaller]

Because it rarely leads to death?

I've seen a few people throw anecdotal stuff out there, so I will too.

Number of years I have been around people who do illegal drugs: 13
Number of users I have met and been social with over that time: 250ish
Number of deaths I have witnessed as a result of illegal drugs: 0
Number of hospitalisations I have witness as a result of illegal drugs: 1
Number of hospitalisations I have witnessed as a result of legal drugs: 9
Number of deaths I have witnessed as a result of riding a motorcycle: 3

As it stands, a large chunk of the population will demonise a young couple who stay in over the weekend to have some ecstasy in the comfort of their own home, over a guy who goes out drinking, gets bladdered, has a violent altercation, pukes on a pavement, and wakes up covered in kebab with traffic cone he doesn't recall acquiring.

Using illegal drugs does not make someone dangerous/an idiot/a loser, those people tend to be like that whether sober/legally 'high'/illegally 'high'.

I never said they were losers

I'm not sure how accurate those figures are but I'll accept them if you're confident that all have been reported accurately.

However, for me, it's just a downward spiral to society, I don't think it would make people happy, it will lead to dependence, and from a health point of view, I know it's not good for you (but that's my health-freak side coming out).

Don't get me wrong I find the drunkards who cause injury to themselves or others, or cause a social disturbance and who put strain on the NHS for pure selfishness and lack of self control absolutely lamentable.

Clearly someone who's at home smoking or doing some form of drug that is pure and not cut with anything bad, who doesn't have a congential defect, and whose body can react safely to the drug then that's obviously their choice.

My fear is that ever decreasing spiral of hedonism that people will try and achieve. I just find it a little upsetting/sad to see that people have to rely on strong chemicals to get a kick out of life. And I just don't mean illegal drugs, but alcohol and smoking too. It's that reliance that scares me rather than anything else.

Whilst we can't quantifiably state what the long term implications are of the occaisional bit of drug use is, we KNOW and can see what sustained drug use can do - even smoking and alcohol. We know those two in excess and over a prolonged periods of time are absolutely detrimental to your health. Whilst my bioscience isn't that hot on other drugs (mainly only in terms of nutrition and fitness) I can't imagine sustained use of cocaine or canabis is conducive to healthy living.

Occaisional use is one thing - for example, I can go without having a drinks for months - I never actively *need* a drink - but do enjoy having a drink or two with friends and actually enjoy the taste of wine for example. However, I can control myself. A lot of people can. However, those who cannot will be the ones to wipe themselves out of existence with the use of more potent drugs. Natural selection? Perhaps, but what a grim way to accept that people aren't able to control themselves - that reliance and addiction is very very dangerous - it affects more than just your physical life, it affects your mind (the addiction does) and potentially your social circle, and the way people regard you.

Do you really want to live in a society where there are stoned/doped people all around you? The problem with legalising it, is it will make it more accessible, and people are NOT responsible and will go too far - some people will want to try it, and goodness knows what reactions they'll have to it.

I think it'll cause more strain on the NHS, the police and create a huge amount of social issues.

I'm not being a hypocrite either as I have dabbled in the past as younger man (heck I used to smoke!!) - but it never really did much for me and I don't have an addictive personality either which probably helps. I had more fun going on holiday with friends, jumping out of planes, and having a game of rugby. To me that was more powerful than any drug.

 

[Burnsy2023]

So that should be banned as well? Shall we include horse-riding and sky-diving, given they are statistically more likely to result in injury or death than drug use?

I'll be honest, I just don't understand why people would want to take these sort of drugs. I like to be in control of my facilities and I don't understand people who don't.

 

[Burnsy2023]

My fear is that ever decreasing spiral of hedonism that people will try and achieve. I just find it a little upsetting/sad to see that people have to rely on strong chemicals to get a kick out of life. And I just don't mean illegal drugs, but alcohol and smoking too. It's that reliance that scares me rather than anything else.

I completely agree with this. I feel a little sad that people feel they need to take drugs to have a good time or for some people just to get out of bed.

 

[Sunbed]

This thread is semi-useless without people actually saying if they have actually tried cannabis, cocaine, ecstasy etc. I can understand why people don't though (say, that is).


I can't understand why ecstasy/mdma is a class A drug. Someone please explain why...

 

[Burnsy2023]

This thread is semi-useless without people actually saying if they have actually tried cannabis, cocaine, ecstasy etc. I can understand why people don't though.

I don't think personal anecdotes really hold much weight anyway.

I can't understand why ecstasy/mdma is a class A drug. Someone please explain why...

This we can agree with. The classification system for drugs is not reflective of the harm they cause and is to some degree purely political. That doesn't mean I think any of it should be legalised though.

 

[LeonT]

all the mash heads coming out of the woodwork

 

[Fr0dders]

This thread is semi-useless without people actually saying if they have actually tried cannabis, cocaine, ecstasy etc. I can understand why people don't though (say, that is).


I can't understand why ecstasy/mdma is a class A drug. Someone please explain why...

Thing is, if people are in any doubt as to how many extra people would start taking drugs if they were legalized.

Look at the craze for the new "legal" highs that has arisen. Plenty of people in the news who never having taken drugs before, thought they'd give it a try because being legal, it must be fine right ?

If people no longer have that line to cross, whats to stop them from giving it a try. Millions of teenagers are all tought that unprotected sex leads to pregnancy.

But millions try it each year because they thing it will never happen to them.

Taking drugs with health warnings would be no different for them.

 

[Freakbro]

I just find it a little upsetting/sad to see that people have to rely on strong chemicals to get a kick out of life.

If you break it down into it's constituent parts though, however you get a "kick" out of life, that feeling of personal euphoria, excitement and/or contentment , whether it comes from prayer, meditation, racing round a track at 200mph, sky diving, fighting in a war, helping the needy - is all just a strong chemical released in the brain.

There is so much mis-information ingrained in society about drug use, because it has to have been demonised for the last 50yrs as part of the anti-drug stance.

But in reality the vast majority of people who take recreational drugs regularly do so and cause no harm to society.

Of course there are people who do get into trouble with addiction, as they do with Bingo, Alcohol, Sex virtually anything you want to imagine. But rather than criminalise them it's better to help - and also educate to reduce the chance of a problem occuring in the first place.

The decriminalisation and regulation of recreational substances is a no brainer really.

 

[krooton]

Sustained use of junk food is proven to be detrimental to one's health.

I eat junk food rarely, but enjoy it every now and again. I used various illegal drugs fairly regularly from the ages 15-24.

I can guarantee that I am in q better mental and physical condition than someone who has never taken any illegal drug, but has eaten themselves in to obesity. Where is the call to ban unhealthy food?

As for 'needing' drugs to enjoy life, it is the single most clichéd angle for those against drugs to take.

Life is a big subjective cluster****, some people get a kick out of a horror film, others white-river rafting, and some might just enjoy a an evening chatting crap with their friends over some LSD. Whose right it is to decide what recreational activities are sad?

I wouldn't be caught dead LARPing, but their are plenty of people out there who love it, different strokes for different folks.

Clearly someone who can't function properly without their morning toke is sad, but then I feel the same way about people who cannot function without coffee/redbull.

Do I cain it now? No, haven't really touched anything for over a year. Would I go back and change anything I did? Hell no! I just don't agree with punishing those with self-control because there are others out there without it.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Thing is, if people are in any doubt as to how many extra people would start taking drugs if they were legalized.

Look at the craze for the new "legal" highs that has arisen. Plenty of people in the news who never having taken drugs before, thought they'd give it a try because being legal, it must be fine right ?

If people no longer have that line to cross, whats to stop them from giving it a try. Millions of teenagers are all tought that unprotected sex leads to pregnancy.

But millions try it each year because they thing it will never happen to them.

Taking drugs with health warnings would be no different for them.

I agree. If I were curious about taking drugs I wouldn't know where to get them and I probably wouldn't want to go down the route of finding a shady drug dealer to get them (well I wouldn't before I met them through policing) That in itself is a deterrent.