Sick/Fit Note - None payment of wage

Transform_IT

Transform_IT

Transform_IT

Associate
Joined
18 Oct 2012
Posts
482
Hi all,

I am an employee forum rep at work, and I have an individual who has just returned from absence due to workplace stress and mental health issues. Whilst they were off, they provided medical fit notes electronically via email. On one occasion, the employer/HR had to phone them to request they send in their form before the close of play to avoid not being paid. They actioned this (emails to prove). When returning to work, they received an email from HR saying their pay had been suspended due to non-receipt of Fit Notes. When questioning why and attaching the emails as evidence of submission, HR replied, saying it was a day late (although there are no previous emails stating what date they need to be sent by - all done via phone call).

Where does this individual stand legally? - I appreciate they are partly to blame for not sending them in a timely fashion. But, they have explained how these were requested from their GP but were delayed due to being busy. As a result, they were backdated (not uncommon). They were submitted to work when requested.

They have never received a warning or request in writing detailing that should they not submit them, they won't be paid. The fact they were off with workplace stress and mental health issues is also alarming. I'm struggling with how best to advise them due to not having legal knowledge.

Thanks,

T_IT.
 
Can't offer any advice other than it sounds like the employer are going to be ****s about it, so sadly the best thing to do would be seek legal advice from a solicitor specialising in employment law.
 
Transform_IT said:
Hi all,

I am an employee forum rep at work, and I have an individual who has just returned from absence due to workplace stress and mental health issues. Whilst they were off, they provided medical fit notes electronically via email. On one occasion, the employer/HR had to phone them to request they send in their form before the close of play to avoid not being paid. They actioned this (emails to prove). When returning to work, they received an email from HR saying their pay had been suspended due to non-receipt of Fit Notes. When questioning why and attaching the emails as evidence of submission, HR replied, saying it was a day late (although there are no previous emails stating what date they need to be sent by - all done via phone call).

Where does this individual stand legally? - I appreciate they are partly to blame for not sending them in a timely fashion. But, they have explained how these were requested from their GP but were delayed due to being busy. As a result, they were backdated (not uncommon). They were submitted to work when requested.

They have never received a warning or request in writing detailing that should they not submit them, they won't be paid. The fact they were off with workplace stress and mental health issues is also alarming. I'm struggling with how best to advise them due to not having legal knowledge.

Thanks,

T_IT.
Click to expand...

Can their manager help? If they were backdated it sounds like HR just being a bit stuck up.

If not, tell HR to sort it out or employee will just go and speak to ACAS.
 
Dyson said:
How long a time are we talking? A day unpaid, or a month unpaid?
Click to expand...
Their company sick pay was suspended from 25th September - 8th October and 8th October - 18th October. They were told on the 8th that if they hadn't set their fit notes in by the close of business on the 8th, they wouldn't get paid (this was the first prompt they received). They sent them on the 8th and explained there were delays from their GP. They questioned HR and have been told their pay from 1st - 18th October won't be reinstated due to late fit notes.
 
Are you in the HR department, are you the person involved with this? If you're neither then I don't really see what business it is of yours. Surely it's between them and HR?
 
Feek said:
Are you in the HR department, are you the person involved with this? If you're neither then I don't really see what business it is of yours. Surely it's between them and HR?
Click to expand...

He's an employee forum representative so he probably wants to familiarise himself with the appropriate rules on this in order to accompany the employee to meetings, you can often have a witness/support person present with you during disputes etc.

Employee representatives | nibusinessinfo.co.uk

Understand the role of employee representatives and situations when you may need to consult them on issues affecting your workforce.
www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk

Representation of individual employees​

In non-unionised settings, a worker may want to choose an employee representative to act as their companion because that person may be more familiar with the tasks associated with the role of spokesperson.
Click to expand...

@Transform_IT I don't know the rules on this but I suspect if it is some random HR admin person fobbing him/her off and it were to escalate, he/she were to request a meeting with you in attendance then you might get the attention of some more senior HR or legal people exercising a bit of common sense on this, I'd certainly highlight that they requested the fit note by the 8th or whatever and it was, in fact, provided by that date, if that was their requirement then he/she has met it regardless of whether they should have put that deadline in place or not.
 
Last edited:
I'm on the fence with issues like this. Following a bereavement, or other life changing issues - then sure. But if it's simply the stress of the job that's causing the person to be off sick - then they're clearly not suitable for the job.

I've seen too many people taking the complete **** out of places I've worked (where I used to assist HR with investigations), only to leave the rest of the team to pick up their slack - to have too much sympathy. If HR are starting to play hardball, it's because they likely know enough about the individual to warrant it.
 
The individual isn't a part of the union - although the site is unionised. I was copied into the emails as I am their employee forum rep. I was unable to advise them but I would like to help as I disagree with the decision made by HR. However, I don't want to spout nonsense if a fair challenge can be brought to the table. For me, the fit notes were provided when requested, but now the employee is being penalised with no fair reason as they complied within the timeframe.
 
Bug One said:
I'm on the fence with issues like this. Following a bereavement, or other life changing issues - then sure. But if it's simply the stress of the job that's causing the person to be off sick - then they're clearly not suitable for the job.

I've seen too many people taking the complete **** out of places I've worked (where I used to assist HR with investigations), only to leave the rest of the team to pick up their slack - to have too much sympathy. If HR are starting to play hardball, it's because they likely know enough about the individual to warrant it.
Click to expand...
I agree with you for the most part - however, this individual suffers from mental health and depression, but they had also been bullied at work and had raised a grievance. Due to this, they went off sick, not from the pressure of the job, but due to the bullying, which has since been dealt with.
 
When I handed in my notice in my old job I went off sick two weeks before I was due to leave (real reasons). I returned with 3 days left on my notice. I lost a months pay as they thought I had done a runner and only paid till I went on sick. Handed in self cert and everything. HR even rang me because they thought I was playing the system even though the year before when I was off with covid nothing was even mentioned. I just emailed my senior manager and that was it.

I drove into work the day I realised I hadn't been paid and had words with H/R. Was in my account within two working days.

In most cases H/R is there for the senior staff only and will do their upmost to make the workers life miserable. Saying that there are so many dossers that play the system with their sick pay (We had a generous 13 weeks full sick pay) they end up tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

I presume he will get paid but at a later date?
 
Last edited:
adam cool dude said:
When I handed in my notice in my old job I went off sick two weeks before I was due to leave (real reasons). I returned with 3 days left on my notice. I lost a months pay as they thought I had done a runner and only paid till I went on sick. Handed in self cert and everything. HR even rang me because they thought I was playing the system even though the year before when I was off with covid nothing was even mentioned. I just emailed my senior manager and that was it.

I drove into work the day I realised I hadn't been paid and had words with H/R. Was in my account within two working days.

In most cases H/R is there for the senior staff only and will do their upmost to make the workers life miserable. Saying that there are so many dossers that play the system with their sick pay (We had a generous 13 weeks full sick pay) they end up tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

I presume he will get paid but at a later date?
Click to expand...
They have been told they won't be paid for these dates.
 
1 day late I think HR are taking the pea.

If there was no date saying when it had to be in, then it's their fault.

Go back and tell them this see what they say and why was there no date provided.

Are you 100% sure there was no cut-off date mentioned verbally or in email? Do they record phone calls at all?

Transform_IT said:
The fact they were off with workplace stress and mental health issues is also alarming.
Click to expand...

If it's workplace related, then either the job isn't for them, or they need to have their work/workplace adjusted to reduce it.
 
Last edited:
Bug One said:
I'm on the fence with issues like this. Following a bereavement, or other life changing issues - then sure. But if it's simply the stress of the job that's causing the person to be off sick - then they're clearly not suitable for the job.

I've seen too many people taking the complete **** out of places I've worked (where I used to assist HR with investigations), only to leave the rest of the team to pick up their slack - to have too much sympathy. If HR are starting to play hardball, it's because they likely know enough about the individual to warrant it.
Click to expand...
Depression is never only about one thing, it is an accumulation of multiple factors which can leave people immobilised in life - it is not someone feeling a bit down. Certainly working for a company that seem utterly insensitive about the issue will not help.
 
Bug One said:
I'm on the fence with issues like this. Following a bereavement, or other life changing issues - then sure. But if it's simply the stress of the job that's causing the person to be off sick - then they're clearly not suitable for the job.

I've seen too many people taking the complete **** out of places I've worked (where I used to assist HR with investigations), only to leave the rest of the team to pick up their slack - to have too much sympathy. If HR are starting to play hardball, it's because they likely know enough about the individual to warrant it.
Click to expand...

Your personal opinions on it aren't relevant though, the question is whether HR are following the correct rules or not with their demands re: the dates he must submit this stuff by and/or also whether he's met those demands they made.
 
dowie said:
Your personal opinions on it aren't relevant though, the question is whether HR are following the correct rules or not with their demands re: the dates he must submit this stuff by and/or also whether he's met those demands they made.
Click to expand...
You can't post a question in a General Discussion forum, and not expect people to add their opinions. If you want actual legal advice, there may be better places.

Plenty of good advice here.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk

Get help with a problem at work

Find out where you can get help with problems in the workplace, including help making a claim to an employment tribunal.
www.citizensadvice.org.uk www.citizensadvice.org.uk
 
Last edited:
As an 'employee forum rep' (which I don't think has any actual legal standing like a union rep might? This is just a few people who collate worker complaints to feed up the food chain so senior managers don't have to keep talking to the minions directly in my experience) and acknowledging you aren't an expert on the topic, I would suggest you aim to keep any advice you give as objective and simple as possible and without involving yourself to any great degree in someone else's dispute.

I wouldn't be suggesting much more than they ask for copies of relevant policies that define the terms payment is being refused, maybe evidence that these policies were communicated to them (depending on workplace size and setup this may not really be worth it), so that they can consult a proper body such as ACAS with all the details and get qualified advice (@Bug One's link above has a good selection).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom