Sickens me to the core...

vonhelmet said:
Yeah, there's a difference. But it's still animal cruelty, and the disgust seems hypocritical when they're happy to eat badly treated animals.
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/sticks neck out.

I grew up on a farm, and that is the stupidest, misinformed comment I've read all year
 
Helium_Junkie said:
Yeah, that's exactly what I said.... did you even read my post? :rolleyes:
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I did read your post, I was just asking for clarification. You are fine with toturing a person if they have tortured an animal? You are fine with killing a person if they have killed an animal?

Helium_Junkie said:
What an absurd reply. Thanks for proving me right.
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I don't like what the two people in the original articles did, I certainly wouldn't dream of doing something similar. I am not exactly sure how tacking that viewpoint and thinking that sort of treatment is wrong I could then go on enact it upon someone else. Yet you think it is OK to treat someone like that as long as they deserve it. I know which attitude I think is closer to the scum that did this...
 
RDM said:
On the sliding scale why is kicking an animal worse than killing an animal? I know which one I would prefer to happen to me...
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If you're going to eat meat then you've got to kill the animal, waiting for it to die of natural causes will usually render the meat useless/tainted and cutting chunks off it while living for consumption would be horrendously barbaric. Basic point is that killing an animal for food has a purpose, a utility if you will, kicking an animal (or otherwise torturing it) for nothing other than your own gratification does not have a utility*. I'm not sure if this is the correct point to note that I am a vegetarian but anyway I respect peoples right to choose to eat meat, I don't respect their right to torture animals for their own amusement or because they don't know better.

*Now we can get into the semantics of whether your own gratification is a goal to be reached and at what point the rights of others (human or otherwise) should be allowed to override that goal.
 
semi-pro waster said:
Basic point is that killing an animal for food has a purpose, a utility if you will, kicking an animal (or otherwise torturing it) for nothing other than your own gratification does not have a utility*. I'm not sure if this is the correct point to note that I am a vegetarian but anyway I respect peoples right to choose to eat meat, I don't respect their right to torture animals for their own amusement or because they don't know better.
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Of course as a vegetarian you are also quite aware that eating meat is no longer necessary and so is pretty much for gratification too.

To be fair I pretty much agree with you, the intent behind the act matters. But as far as the animal is concerned the intent doesn't help. At least with the abuse it is still alive, for food it isn't.

I cannot however agree with torturing and abusing people just because they have done it to others, animal or otherwise. Also as a lover of eating meat I can also not give animals the same level of protection as humans as I am more than happy for many animals a year to be killed just to feed my love of meat.
 
Helium_Junkie said:
These are completely different things, and there is an even bigger gulf between expressing distaste - no matter how angrily - and actually hanging an animal by the neck.

I'm not saying either is OK or right, I'm saying that to consider them "ironic" is to ignore the difference between the motivation for each side.
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RDM said:
You are fine with toturing a person...
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You either can't or won't read. I never even implied in even the most remote sense that I could ever begin to for a second possibly perhaps maybe think that in any case it is ever ok to even consider the potential of torturing a person. Quite the opposite in fact.

So I'd say you've made quite a leap there. :rolleyes: Well done!
Would you like to invent some more words to put in my mouth?
 
RDM said:
Of course as a vegetarian you are also quite aware that eating meat is no longer necessary and so is pretty much for gratification too.
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Absolutely, there may be very rare cases where eating meat is a necessity but we could rightly say that they would be extreme exceptions. However I don't want to attempt to tell people what they should or should not eat and if they are going to eat meat then I'd like to see it done as humanely as possible so with as minimal distress to the animal as possible. At least I can see some use to killing an animal for food, I can see no use in merely torturing an animal so that is partly why I'd draw a distinction between the two.

RDM said:
To be fair I pretty much agree with you, the intent behind the act matters. But as far as the animal is concerned the intent doesn't help. At least with the abuse it is still alive, for food it isn't.
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True enough and that is a problem but (perhaps unfortunately) humans are higher up the food chain than animals so they can prioritise what lives and what dies. I'd also question what quality of life counts as worthwhile but that somewhat ties into my views on euthanasia which may well be a subject for a whole different thread.

RDM said:
I cannot however agree with torturing and abusing people just because they have done it to others, animal or otherwise. Also as a lover of eating meat I can also not give animals the same level of protection as humans as I am more than happy for many animals a year to be killed just to feed my love of meat.
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I'm in full agreement with you in regard to torturing humans as not being acceptable, whatever they have done doesn't excuse that, if you want to demonstrate that it is wrong you set an example rather than stooping to their level.
 
Helium_Junkie said:
You either can't or won't read. I never even implied in even the most remote sense that I could ever begin to for a second possibly perhaps maybe think that in any case it is ever ok to even consider the potential of torturing a person. Quite the opposite in fact.

So I'd say you've made quite a leap there. :rolleyes: Well done!
Would you like to invent some more words to put in my mouth?
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My apologies I read it wrong.
 
I love the rage at the little girl kicking the dog, who seems to be ok at the end, and the apparent lack of interest in the guy who strung his dog up and let it slowly hang. Strange thread.
 
RDM said:
My apologies I read it wrong.
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Well that's ok then :) No harm no foul.

For the record, I abhor violence against people and animals, including torture and murder. I would never wish to inflict harm on the animals or the owners in these stories.

But it makes me very very angry to see it done.
 
dun said:
I love the rage at the little girl kicking the dog, who seems to be ok at the end, and the apparent lack of interest in the guy who strung his dog up and let it slowly hang. Strange thread.
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i like how some neighbour shot a 13minute video when he could have filmed for a very short time and put an end to the dogs suffering :rolleyes:
 
arknor said:
i like how some neighbour shot a 13minute video when he could have filmed for a very short time and put an end to the dogs suffering :rolleyes:
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I was thinking similar, I wonder what I would do - film her for longer to ensure the evidence is sufficient to have her kept away from animals, or rush out there and only make her stop for now. I think I would rush out to protect the animal I could see, but in the long run I don't think thats the best solution.
13 minutes seems excessive, I would hope that only a couple of minutes would be enough, but then would people still say that's too long? *shrug*
 
As much as I love my children, and would do anything for them, and have never raised a hand in anger against them... if I caught one of mine doing that, I'd backhand them accross the room.
 
eye for an eye justice system please

kick the fat little ******* as many times a she did to the dog in the first link and hang that **** in the second link
 
RDM said:
Why is it so different to doing it to a human? Because it is an animal and while we try not to torture animals on a daily basis we do kill an awful lot of them so giving them the same legal protections as a human being probably isn't a smart thing to do.
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So a house hold animal is only worth 24 weeks in prison if you torture it to death.

Does it have less feelings as us? Is its life worth so much less?

Of course its smart, killing animals like sheep etc for food is just natural. Torturing a poor animal to death should be worth several years in jail at least, thats not even close to a life sentence.
 
8igdave said:
So a house hold animal is only worth 24 weeks in prison if you torture it to death.
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By the looks of it, yes.


8igdave said:
Does it have less feelings as us? Is its life worth so much less?
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Yes, by a considerable margin on both counts.


8igdave said:
Of course its smart, killing animals like sheep etc for food is just natural. Torturing a poor animal to death should be worth several years in jail at least, thats not even close to a life sentence.
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If he had just killed the dog quickly would that have been OK then?
 
I want to go Jump on the fat little trolls head, No need for that, Ive got a 3 year old springer and i couldnt imagine my life with out him ive even put myself in danger to save him at times, sick cow should get a beating and put away
 
8igdave said:
So a house hold animal is only worth 24 weeks in prison if you torture it to death.

Does it have less feelings as us? Is its life worth so much less?

Of course its smart, killing animals like sheep etc for food is just natural. Torturing a poor animal to death should be worth several years in jail at least, thats not even close to a life sentence.
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Couldnt agree more, Who are we to decide we are theee Greatest race, and we are the all mighty rulers of this planet, were no greater than a snail imho.

Yeah fair enough we have created some great things but doesnt mean we own the planet and all its beings
 
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