Significant incident Plymouth

Terminal_Boy said:
So, we have a 3rd mass shooting in the U.K. due to failures by the firearms licensing team of the local constabulary. Will “lessons be learned” this time?
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Oh please think of the recreational gun owners!!! Why won't anyone think of the recreational gun owners!!!
 
Banning guns is easy.

Stopping young men ruining their lives (and others) by being sucked into extremism? "Nah, sod that, it's too hard. Ban guns." That's all I see in this thread.
 
Fubsy said:
Banning guns is easy.

Stopping young men ruining their lives (and others) by being sucked into extremism? "Nah, sod that, it's too hard. Ban guns." That's all I see in this thread.
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Actually all you see is fringe hobbyists saying do not ban guns (and some aren't even that black and white - they want to ban specific types).
 
dLockers said:
Actually all you see is fringe hobbyists saying do not ban guns (and some aren't even that black and white - they want to ban specific types).
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That's what I see too, along with the people arguing with them, and I think looking at the tool of death here is a diversion and will not solve the problem.

Ban guns. Easy. Will it stop extremist incels from getting in a van and mowing down pedestrians?
 
Fubsy said:
That's what I see too, along with the people arguing with them, and I think looking at the tool of death here is a diversion and will not solve the problem.

Ban guns. Easy. Will it stop extremist incels from getting in a van and mowing down pedestrians?
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Nothing will ever stop a determined killer finding a way. However, the more miniscule barriers you put in place the more likely that a highly emotional individual has time or opportunity to calm down.
 
I think there's going to be criticism of the police force who's reinstated his license following anger management in December. Obviously it's unknown at this point what his mental health treatment was (if any) but I'm sure we'll find out over the coming days. As the husband of someone who treats (in community groups) people who have mental health issues, for the NHS I would say from speaking to the missus the funding hasn't been cut that much but it's never really been adequately funded in the first place. But what within the NHS has?
 
I'm finding it difficult to process how someone would willingly shoot a 3 year old child, I can understand (perhaps not the correct choice of word) someone loosing their **** and taking their frustration out on the world and randomly shooting people.

But come on a 3 year beautiful innocent kid, breaks my heart seeing the pics of her.
 
Fubsy said:
Banning guns is easy.

Stopping young men ruining their lives (and others) by being sucked into extremism? "Nah, sod that, it's too hard. Ban guns." That's all I see in this thread.
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Tbh I see it as minimising risks. I read above someone say they'd use another weapon but I'm not convinced the risks would be the same. Someone could be more easily challenged if they were attempting to stab people using a knife so I think less likely to go on a rampage. Challenging someone pointing a shotgun at you is unlikely to work out in your favour.
I'm on the fence about guns. I mean it's not like anyone can buy one legally at the moment so I think they just need to look at the licencing again more closely. The guy had his gun licence revoked I believe due to an assault in Sept 2020 and it and the gun was given back in July this year. Maybe any police record should result in permanently being banned from owning weapons. That'd be a better approach I think rather than going into total ban on gun ownership.

Some have been accusing lockdowns and social media but I dunno, thinking it's him against the world and blaming women (apparently) for not having a girlfriend seem to be thoughts from someone expecting good things to just land at their feet and blaming others rather than going out there and improving their own life.

I'm from Plymouth and it was a very close call for a relative and their son I found out yesterday.

Also worth sparing a thought for those who provided emergency services on the day. I once had a conversation with one of the paramedics first on scene of the Hungerford massacre and remember what he told me of his personal account and how it impacted his life since.
 
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I like guns and if I lived in the US would probably have an extensive arsenal, however I also recognise that the UK's strict gun control measures are what prevent atrocities like this happening more frequently.

I'd support stricter controls where only people with a clear profession-linked need could purchase both firearms and shotguns. I'd also support a ban on crossbows.

The key differences between a firearm and other weapons (clubs, knives) are avoidability and how much damage can be imparted in a short amount of time by an unskilled individual.
If someone comes at you with a knife or club, most people would have a reasonable chance of running away to avoid being injured and if caught, fatal wounds are less likely than lethal ones. You can't outrun a bullet and they have far more risk of imparting a lethal injury.
 
Terminal_Boy said:
No U.K. government is going to ban double barrelled shotguns as the law would never make it past the landed gentry in the Commons and the Lords.
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Pretty much, if the rich land owners enjoy it, it's not going anywhere.
I'm all up for, maybe help put a stop all the birds of prey they kill.
One can dream.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Some issues with your arguement here

"Why do we have significantly less, because we have gun control laws. They work, demonstrably. I can guarantee you there is no law you can enforce that would stop these things from happening."

You contradicted yourself here! Do you have any figures to support that gun control has worked in the UK? As far as I'm aware there was never an issue with wide scale murder involving firearms before hand guns were banned and the trend for their use was falling downwards long before any ban and has not had any significant fall since the ban. The ban was knee jerk and all it achieved was removing their use from law abiding citizens.

Gun murder in the us is a culture issue and the majority of them from the figures are suicide, so a public health issue too.

Just playing devils advocate here as although I enjoy using shotguns in a local club recreationally, I would have enjoyed using hand guns too, but i can accept that there is a large element of scum in society that I do not wish to have easier access to these weapons (although they can get them easily enough via black market anyway).
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I’m not contradicting myself. UK vs US. We have far fewer gun incidents because we have laws that restrict gun use. So they work.

I then say there is no law you can enforce that will stop them happening. This is true, it will reduce the number of incidents but it won’t stop them from happening entirely. Case and point: this is an incident with a licensed firearm, how many gun incidents happen with illegal firearms?

I then went on to show how you can bring in some ridiculously punitive laws that would likely reduce incidents further but they would greatly reduce freedoms.

Jist of my argument is:
Current laws work
More laws will reduce freedoms
Banning recreational shotgun use is completely OTT reaction

I also argued in other posts that I think more regular checks on current license owners and their mental health could help to prevent these. And are far less intrusive than having to keep your guns at the range etc.
 
Jesus more crap about banning guns. Why would you ban the use of guns that can provide a fun a hobby/sport because of some nut job.

The law works just fine and it seems the police are fault for handing the gun back over. This isn't the USA so don't compare us to them.
 
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